Composting head vs classic head

[bletso]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I've heard of these non-smelling wet toilets. I've yet to be on a boat with one...hmmm...

You do now that some people can't smell worth a crap. Then there those who become some accustomed to the smell that it is just not noticed.

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I've heard of these non-smelling wet toilets. I've yet to be on a boat with one...hmmm...

You've not been aboard ours.

I did a post on the conversion to PVC on our boat a while back; it's not germane to the topic so I'll not repeat it, but at least one other commenter here has identified it as valuable.

Ours survived a serious wreck, so efficacy of installation is not an issue...

[smbdyiam2]

The compost head is addition. There was a porta-potty onboard . May have been something different earlier. We saw that a porta -potty was going to smell and need emptied often. So was thinking a bout buying a second one plus some deodorizer. So did not have to go onshore as often. When I saw a ad for a home made composter on ebay. Wrote to seller and asked about it . What I found out from him convinced me on way to go. (thanks again) I decided to build my own. Very easy and low cost. And can go a long time between empties. We have both lived in homes with outhouses. Camped in primative campgrounds, for 3 months at a time ,and drove over the road trucks for 4 years, and owned our own home for 25 years. So have used all kinds of heads. This is by far the best we have used with out being in a nice hotel. Even living in own homes some with city sewer and some with sceptic tanks underground we always had some thing to fix ever year or so. Not with this. To us this is like carrying out the trash ----once every 3 months with no smell. The other ways seemed like bringing the outhouse on board. Then calling the sceptic cleaners every week.
Oh the space used ? Same as the porta-potty was. In fact same place , no change except smell and convenience . lee

[HeinSdL]

To replace the standard Jabsco 3000 model, which would be the best dry toilet? Are they not a lot higher than what I currently have on board? Worried to not reach the floor with my feet...

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Have you actually ever owned and used a composting head?
If so fine then positives and negatives please
if not well that speaks for itself.

Nonsense.

By your logic, one who has never stuck forks in their eyes, can’t make an intelligent decision to avoid doing it.

Of course those who enjoy handling pee and poop will gravitate towards owning a $#!+ shovelling toilet, and those who don’t won’t.

The output of these toilets is not compost.

It is raw, concentrated urine, and $#!+ mixed with dry fibre, much like one may shovel out of a pig pen.

The proper term is “harbour and landfill dumping toilets”. (That’s where the stuff is going.)

It’s pretty sad how out of one side of their face a person will preach about the abhorrent effects of plastics in our oceans, and then in the next breath pay a ridiculous premium to purchase a large plastic device, that requires a never ending supply of plastic bags to supply it and then empty it.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

To replace the standard Jabsco 3000 model, which would be the best dry toilet? Are they not a lot higher than what I currently have on board? Worried to not reach the floor with my feet...

build your own to fit both your space and your frame. They are dead simple . Mine to date has a build cost of iirc 8 bucks. Total

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

To replace the standard Jabsco 3000 model, which would be the best dry toilet? Are they not a lot higher than what I currently have on board? Worried to not reach the floor with my feet...

If you're looking at the commercial options the 'big three' are Air Head, Nature's Head and C Head. Of those, Air and Nature's are quite similar, and both are physically larger and taller than the toilet in your Jabsco. C head is physically smaller, so sometimes easier to fit into some boats. C Head also uses smaller collection bins (both for feces and urine) which means dumping cycles are about twice as often as Air/Nature's.

But as folks like Newhaul have done, you can build your own. There's definitely no rocket science here. Separation of inputs, and then aeration of the main bin, are all that's really needed.

... ah, I see Newhaul has already jumped in .

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Nonsense.

By your logic, one who has never stuck forks in their eyes, can’t make an intelligent decision to avoid doing it.

Of course those who enjoy handling pee and poop will gravitate towards owning a $#!+ shovelling toilet, and those who don’t won’t.

The output of these toilets is not compost.

It is raw, concentrated urine, and $#!+ mixed with dry fibre, much like one may shovel out of a pig pen.

The proper term is “harbour and landfill dumping toilets”. (That’s where the stuff is going.)

It’s pretty sad how out of one side of their face a person will preach about the abhorrent effects of plastics in our oceans, and then in the other side, pay a ridiculous premium to purchase a large plastic device, that requires a never ending supply of plastic bags to empty it.

in other words you have never had a composting toilet .
I have covered the " plastic " bag issue many times . Have you never heard of plastic laundry bags or compostable " plastic" refuse bags.

The output is not ( this just proves the point that the people vehemently against them have no experience with them ) a mixture of concentrated urine and feces mixed with a dry fiber.

Do a bit of research .

Btw where do you think the sewage that is pumped out of your tank goes.
The whole mess is mixed with lots of chemicals then the liquids are released into the lake/ river the solids are dried and then trucked to the nearest landfill or it is sold as compost for flower gardens.

Would you like the book on the whole subject?

Here is a good place to start.
https://humanurehandbook.com/

As a service provider you should have a good working knowledge of them as there are many people that are interested in this " ecologically friendly " option.

[Craig_B]

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

Seriously? Are you unable to use a search button? If you are unable then simply scroll back a few days in the new posts for more verbiage and opinions than one can stand. This topic has been covered and recovered in a dozen threads over the past year. We don’t need another one.

Well..........that was F'n Rude
What has happened to basic manners?

[Mike OReilly]

Rod, I've never heard of anyone who "enjoys handling pee and poop", and I've certainly never seen this cited as a reason to select a composting head. If you can reference where users list this as a reason, I may take your "ramblins" somewhat seriously.

I get it that some people find it "icky" to deal with their own outflows. Most of us grow up with enough wealth such that we mostly just "flush and forget." Same goes for most of our garbage; we just toss it into the bins, and it all magically gets removed from our lives. Of course, this kind of approach is coming back to bite us all in the form of various environmental challenges.

There's no perfect way to deal with human effluent. Dumping it all into a holding tank creates a truly toxic slurry which is far more dangerous than the separated, desiccated, and slightly composted material that comes out of these heads. But it's true that compost head users must be a bit more intimate with our outflows. If you're too delicate to manage this, you should definitely stay away from them.

Personally, I find being more aware -- in general -- is part of the reason I've gone cruising. In virtually all ways, cruising life forces me to be more aware of the resources and effort it takes to live my life. From the water and food I consume, to the diesel, cordage, sailcloth and electricity I require, living on a boat forces a sort of awareness (or awakening for some) about consumption, and how we live our lives.

I think this is a good thing.

[Sparx]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

To replace the standard Jabsco 3000 model, which would be the best dry toilet? Are they not a lot higher than what I currently have on board? Worried to not reach the floor with my feet...

Air Head, C head, and Natures head are the primary manufacturers available in the US. It is possible to find debates online regarding the best of these, however the differences are small compared to the similarities. You can choose any one of these and have a workable solution. They each have different dimensions, and that may ultimately drive selection.

We have the Air Head on board and are quite satisfied. We had the same concern regarding height. We went ahead with the installation with the plan to add a small secure platform near the head to accommodate feet attached to short legs. Butt in use we found the standard height to not be a problem, even for the shortest in our crew, and never built the platform.

[Lowcountry]

I've never had a composting head, and I am not interested in buying one. I prefer the tried-and-true flushing marine head with a holding tank. That's just me, and you are equally entitled to your own preferences. I will say that if I was boat shopping, boats with composting heads would be immediately removed from consideration.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Personally, I find being more aware -- in general -- is part of the reason I've gone cruising. In virtually all ways, cruising life forces me to be more aware of the resources and effort it takes to live my life.

As I read Mike's post, occurred to me the schism here might be along the lines of those who seek comforts-of-home while cruising vs simplicity and austerity. Starting 30-years ago or so, sailors started having choices in the degree of creature comforts - new builds stopped aligning to race-boat dimensions (e.g. the pinched transoms of IOR rule), and where built to sell at boat show docks were sumptuous interiors rule.

Sailors are catching up to powerboaters in their desire for onboard baubles (limiting factor being bank account). Nowhere is the tension between simplicity/complexity more evident than the holy-war that always erupts over compost heads.

[SV__Grace]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Just make sure you can lock off standard head's thru-hull when traveling in poop-policed zones. I've never encountered such, but hear about the rather anal policing some jurisdictions have about all this stuff.
And of course legally speaking, it is also required.

I would LOVE to remove my holding tank for our marine head but haven't because my understanding is that it's required, and having a composting toilet won't exempt me from that requirement for the marine head.

Know any exceptions or loopholes?

[ramblinrod]

Too funny!!!!

First of all, let's start with proper definitions.

A) "Typical Marine Head" A certified, and approved, type III MSD (marine sanitation device) for effluent pump out with approved devices, and delivery to proper municipal waste treatment/disposal, or proper and legal open water discharge where permitted.

B) "Effluent Separating Head", commonly referred to as a "Composting Head" (whose effluent is actually a significant bio-hazard) or more recently a "Dessicating Head", where really the urine is not dessicated but concentrated, and the feces is mixed with some form of dry fibre, whose outputs are filled with ecologically damaging acids and hazardous bacteria.

Next we need to address the fan-boy "Strawman" arguments.

Some are attempting to purposefully change the position of other posters, apparently because they realize their arguments to the real debate lack sufficient strength on their own merit.

In response to NewHauls Post # 83...

in other words you have never had a composting toilet .

You are incorrect.

I have built, owned, and used many varieties of "Effleunt Separating Toilets" during my lifetime.

I have developed, built, and used, an "Effluent Separating" waste treatment system for livestock.

I suspect my practical and personal experience is far greater than your own.

Do a bit of research.

Ha ha ha!

If you only knew what you were talking about and who you were talking to.

I have extensively researched (in the classroom and in the field) human waste handling and treatment processes, for many, many years.

I have personally worked on process measurement and control equipment development for the municipal waste treatment industry.

In contrast, to avoid purchasing an approved Type III MSD, you have built a box to hold a couple of buckets.

In contrast you refer to a self-published article, by a non SME (Subject Matter Expert).

And here you try to discredit my knowledge and experience.

What a joke!

In response to Mike OReilly, post number 85

Rod, I've never heard of anyone who "enjoys handling pee and poop", and I've certainly never seen this cited as a reason to select a composting head.

The people who have decided to purchase, install, and use an "Effluent Separating Toilet", who have not done so mindlessly based on "fanboy testimonials" have apparently evaluated options and determined that handling their own pee and poop in this manner, is preferable.

While they may not "love" it, it is apparently more "enjoyable" to them, or logically, they would not have made the decision to do so.

So my posts on this matter are based on a significant amount of scientific and real-world practical experience with various human waste treatment systems.

Based on this, I would never personally install an "effluent separating toilet" in my personal boat, when the majority of my sailing will be done in areas of legislated "no discharge zone", where proper approved and certified marina pump out facilities exist.

Instead we will install or retain and maintain a proper, certified, marine MSD type III, and on the rare occasion where marina pumpout facilities or discharge zones do not exist within reasonable distance, that we can get to with reasonable navigation planning, we will use Wag Bags, for this purpose.

For the record, I have never stated nor implied, that a cruiser should not be aware of their impact on the environment, as you seemed to imply in this post. (That is a strawman argument IMHO.)

And in response to NewHauls post # 83.

As a service provider you should have a good working knowledge of them as there are many people that are interested in this " ecologically friendly " option.

Based on my prior professional affiliation with the municipal waste treatment industry, and as the owner of a Professional Marine Service Business, and as being an ABYC certified "Marine Systems" technician, which includes sanitation systems, I do have a good working knowledge of "Effluent Separating" toilets, as compared to certified Type III Marine Sanitation Devices designed for pump out at municipal marinas.

I consult boat owners in my geographical service territory on the Great Lakes, some for world cruising refits, on all possible human waste collection and treatment solutions available to them.

My working knowledge of these and other waste treatment options, is likely vastly superior to your own.

In my personal and professional opinion, the use of an "Effluent Separating Toilet" on a boat, in a no discharge zone where marina pump out facilities exist, with a practice of dumping urine overboard, and dumping feces in municipal waste receptacles, is illegal, immoral, and most certainly "not ecologically friendly", but rather an easily avoidable bio and eco hazard.

But like me, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, based on what ever sources they choose to consider.

Addendum: Lastly, it may be worth mentioning that whether a customer of mine chooses a Type III MSD for marina pumpout, or an "Effluent Separating Toilet", is pretty much a wash, from a parts and labour perspective, so I have no financial bias, either way.

Second Addendum: After customer consultation, if they decided to proceed with the "Effluent Separating Toilet" option, I will gladly install it for them; after all, it is their boat, they have to live with it, and it is their responsibility to use it responsibly. (What they really end up doing, is their business (so to speak).