Considering a Niagara 35

[Xanthan Echo]

I know they are good quality well constructed boats. I like the layout of the classic. A few questions/concerns:

1. Light Wind - I will be sailing mostly in the North Channel of Lake Huron which I understand has rather light winds. Is this boat to heavy for the area?

2. The Motor - is the original westerbeke 33hp with 2400 hours on it. It is a 40 year old motor and has not been rebuilt. Should I be worried? Is that a lot of hours?

3. Swim Platform - we would like to add a swim platform. However with the balsa cored hull is this a risky move? Can it be done without risking adding moisture to your hull? What would that entail?

Here is the listing - any other thoughts or concerns?

Thanks.

https://breezewayyachts.com/1981-niagara-35

[LittleWing77]

Nice-looking boat!

Every boat is too heavy in light winds! (Just get a nice asymmetric)

Yeah, you'll probably need to repower, but if it's running fine now, for the time being, keep maintaining and running, but start saving up for a nice beta...

Also - state of the rig...?

Swim platform I'll leave to someone else. Too many variables.

Good luck!
Warmly,
LittleWing77

[Xanthan Echo]

Anyone else think this would need a repower? I've heard those westerbekes will do 3-4 times that many hours before you have to worry - thoughts?

She seems a little dirty on deck, also a little rust on the engine, I'm worried this may be a sign of neglect overall.

Obviously I'll get a survey, but I'm on the fence wether to proceed with an offer just based on the pictures and brokers opinion.

[AiniA]

A few thoughts as a former N35 owner.
- This boat has a DRS with a snuffer. I assume it is there as a light wind sail. With a snuffer should do the job.
- The condition of the engine is much more associated with the maintenance it has had rather than the hours. We had a bigger Westerbeke on a later boat. It had something like 3800 hours when we bought the boat and we went around the world and got up to near 5000 hours and the engine was great, caused us no significant grief. Westerbekes are pretty simple engines. You could add as a condition of the offer to have a mechanic look at the engine. Regular surveys do not look at the engine in any detail. If the boat has a maintenance log that would be nice.
- A swim platform can be added with all holes for fasteners being potted with epoxy and then redialled. It is possible that the transom could be solid glass, I don't remember.

These are great boats but getting long in the tooth. This one seems a bit pricey but that may just be the current market.

[TrentePieds]

Quote: "I will be sailing mostly in the North Channel of Lake Huron ..."

Excellent question! In LH you will be sailing only in the summer season. From May through Sept the winds are predominantly from the west and have velocities of 8 to 20 mph only about a quarter of the time. At other times in the sailing season they are of lower velocity. So sez the published weather data.

The Niagara 35 has a SA/D of, say, 17 and a Displ/LWL of 330. Taken together with the lines of the hull, which hail from the transition period in the 1970s when full keeled cruising boats were transmogrifying into pretend racing boats, this may be taken to mean that she will need a fair push to get going. I dare say, though I've never sailed one, that she won't come into her own as a sailboat until it's blowing on the high side of 12 knots. You may then expect a lovely comfortable ride at a speed through the water of just a tad less than 7 knots, which is her hull speed (theoretical maximum speed).

In lesser winds she'll obviously be slower, but unless you are an unreconstructed purist you just crank up the iron wind. Noisy, but it gets you there :-) A forty-year-old Westerbeeke may or may not be just fine. It will depend entirely on how it's been maintained. If it starts willingly and runs smoothly - if that word can be applied to small diesels - you may be good for many years. But as Littlewing sez - put some money in the bank so it is there, should you need it. At seven tons displacement you need, by the rule of thumb, 28HP to drive her in all circumstances. A new 30HP Beta (I agree with LW again - go for a Beta), professionally installed on new mounts and the prop replaced/adjusted to suit, will set you back just about C$20K.

I handle that sort of eventuality including replacement of sails by feeding more money into my dedicated "boat account" each year than TP consumes in maintenance in a "normal" year.

Best of luck to you :-)!

TrentePieds

[Scubaseas]

Originally Posted by Xanthan Echo

I know they are good quality well constructed boats. I like the layout of the classic. A few questions/concerns:

1. Light Wind - I will be sailing mostly in the North Channel of Lake Huron which I understand has rather light winds. Is this boat to heavy for the area?

2. The Motor - is the original westerbeke 33hp with 2400 hours on it. It is a 40 year old motor and has not been rebuilt. Should I be worried? Is that a lot of hours?

3. Swim Platform - we would like to add a swim platform. However with the balsa cored hull is this a risky move? Can it be done without risking adding moisture to your hull? What would that entail?

Here is the listing - any other thoughts or concerns?

Thanks.

https://breezewayyachts.com/1981-niagara-35

1.) Does it have enough sail area to make it go? Big sails like a code zero or drifter or light cruising spinnaker can make sailing in light air fast and easy. Especially if the sails are on furlers or snuffers. A lot of "heavy" boats are actually very good light air boats. I sailed LI Sound for years which can have close to zero wind at times in Summer. Pearson 323, similar size/weight underbody to an N35. Great under sail in light air with a Doyle UPS wind forward of beam and a Hood MPS wind aft of beam.

2.) Practically new if well maintained. Hardly broken in until 4 to 5K hours.

3.) Drill hole through one side to the other side but do not go through other side. Use an allen wrench with a ground tip or a dado bit to dig out 1/2" or more of the core. Paint entire hole and core with properly mixed epoxy. Then add filler like colloidal silica, high density filler and/or micro beads to epoxy to make a paste and refill the hole. Let harden a day or two and redrill hole to bolt size. Core is now protected with epoxy filler. No worries of done tight the first time.

[nortonscove]

Originally Posted by Xanthan Echo

Anyone else think this would need a repower? I've heard those westerbekes will do 3-4 times that many hours before you have to worry - thoughts?

She seems a little dirty on deck, also a little rust on the engine, I'm worried this may be a sign of neglect overall.

Obviously I'll get a survey, but I'm on the fence wether to proceed with an offer just based on the pictures and brokers opinion.

I wouldn't think you'd need to repower for some time yet. You are in an area where you sail for only part of the year and won't see a ton of motoring even if you spend a fair percentage of your time motoring. 2400 hours is not a lot for any engine let alone a diesel.

These boats are better than you would expect in all conditions. I was pleasantly surprised by my limited time on one. I've cared for one for the past ten years and have found it to be impressive in the execution regarding build and design.

As for the swim platform I'm thinking you'd simply drill any holes above the waterline as high as possible. This avoids constant submersion and lessens the chance of water ingress. Predrill and impregnate the core with epoxy and further bed the flanges and bolts with a quality sealant.

These a lovely boats and if well found usually sell for a reasonable price for what you get.

[GoAway]

I have owned a 1984 N35 Classic for 14 years. I looked at many used boats before I bought it and many new boats since at Annapolis sailboat shows. Haven't seen anything I would trade it for. But that's because it is just right for my wife and me. It wouldn't be for many, or perhaps even most others because the layout is anything but typical.

Addressing your specific questions:
Light wind - As others have said, when its really light no one under sail is going anywhere fast. But upwind or on a beam reach 4 kts will get you moving fine with the #1. Downwind I like to use the asymmetric without main because its easy and keeps us going in around 7-8 kts true wind. I am on Chesapeake Bay with possibly similar winds to where you are and I am very satisfied with the way it sails, but if you want something that truly moves well in very light winds, get something really light with a flat bottom.

Motor - It is expensive to replace or rebuild, so it would be worth getting a mechanic to inspect it and do a compression test. If the owner objects, I would be concerned. You also might consider getting an oil sample tested. It isn't expensive and I get mine tested every year by Blackstone Labs. It can tell you a lot about the condition of the engine.

Swim platform - I just modified my swim ladder this year because with the rake of the transom my wife was starting to have some difficulty pulling herself up on deck. A number of years ago I bought a 2-step extension that is attached to the original ladder so it would go deeper in water. Only really needed one of the 2 extra steps, so I shortened the original ladder by one step and mounted it a few inches below the top of the transom making it much easier to board. When I drilled the holes for the relocated ladder mounting brackets, it appeared that the transom is not cored.

Hope this helps.