Converting a jib to be self-tacking

[Jammer]

There are times when I would rather have a self-tacking jib. Short tacking, passengers sitting in front of the sheet winches, traffic, more interested in getting there comfortably than in getting there quickly.


I would like something that I can rig when the situation warrants and remove the rest of the time.


Need not work in heavy winds or with more than one sail. (I have hanked-on foresails with no roller reefing)


My boat will not tack reliably under main alone or I would just do that.


I'd like to figure out something simple like putting a block at the clew much as is done with the main, but with the lines leading aft the right amount to provide more or less the proper sail shape while close hauled, and a tolerable shape on a beam reach.


Or a boom, or a traveler.


Suggestions?

[flyingfin]

A short wood boom, look in old sailing journals for "club footed jib"

[djmarchand]

I have owned and sailed extensively two self tacking jib based boats: and Island Packet 37 and a Saga 43. Neither were pure main and jib rigs, but the principles would be the same and each handled the self tacking differently.

The main issue with jib self tacking is finding a way to keep the tension on the clew perpendicular to the luff.

The IP uses a boom, a straight piece of aluminum attached to a swivel just in back of the tack. Newer IPs use a curved Hoyt designed boom which does the same thing. The jib is controlled by triangular lines led to blocks on either side of the hull.

The Saga uses a curved track placed just in front of the mast. A single jib sheet line is attached to the clew of the sail, then to a block on the track, up to a block on the mast and then to a cleat.

I particularly loved the Saga's rig as tacking upwind was a simple matter of moving the rudder to a new tack. No releasing and winching in the other sheet on the tack. The IPs rig worked well, but I just liked the way the Saga did it.

From the foregoing explanation (admittedly sketchy) I hope that you can appreciate that this isn't a trivial problem and no temporary solution is going to work satisfactorily. Keeping the tension on the clew perpendicular to the liff takes significant hardware.

David

[Dave_S]

I thought about this too. Although I'm on a cat. I thought a pulley, deck mounted on centre line in front of the mast with a sheet running back to the helm. Once the sheet is tied and adjusted to your tack angle the jib will swap side to side just like a self tacking set up.


PS.. just read the above post and my method would not have good tension along the jibs luff, particularly on the wider the angles.

[Dave_S]

If you ran another line forward, through a pully to another pully on the clew to a third fixed point you can tighten this and the two.moments will act together to have the ability to pull the clew down. Once the second line is set, it will not need adjustments when you tack.

It's a bit crude, but you said you werent looking for perfection.

Just thinking out loud here, happy to be corrected.

[GILow]

Whatever you decide, avoid the boom solution if you can.

I tried the one which came with our staysail and it was exactly as I had been warned here on C.F. A vicious brute of a thing apparently hell bent on breaking your shin or throwing you to the sharks.

It now occupies a place in the shed roof, waiting on me to sell it for scrap.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by flyingfin

A short wood boom, look in old sailing journals for "club footed jib"

Trust me... the word "club" will apply in ways you might not have considered.

[Tayana42]

Happily I have a boom on my staysail that allows effortless self tacking. On your boat, with a hanked on head sail you might be able to adapt a windsurfer wishbone boom. It should be possible to lash it onto your forestay up several feet from the tack of the sail and lash the aft end of the wishbone to the clew of the sail. Then you would only need to work out the proper sheet leads.

[Jim Cate]

Some years ago in the Latitude 38 column called Max Ebb, his pet smart ass grad student Lee Helm described a simple self tacking system that looked (at the time) pretty do-able. I don't remember the details, nor the date or even year of publication, but if you could search it out, I think it would solve your problem.

If you should find it, please post the info. I'm sure many would be interested.

Jim

[Pelagic]

A block attached to the clew is worth trying first for a stay sail

[theway]

I found this...
https://www.riggingdoctor.com/life-a...cking-staysail

My “staysail” is a storm jib with a wire luff that I raise at times I know I’ll be going close to windward... I recently discovered that I can tighten both sheets and have it pretty much flat and aligned center with the mast. It’s a pretty flat sail with just enough curve to be useful.

I came across the above link looking for a solution to only use one sheet but accomplish the same task, tightening the sail straight back, when needed and have it tack on its own.

[Stu Jackson]

When I was bringing our boat up the coast two summers ago, we met a skipper in Charleston who had a self tacking jib on his sloop, all done with lines. It's out there, you just have to search for it.


From my log, Coos Bay:


He has a very nice Ranger 33, blue hull, Garhauer traveler, and a nifty self tacking jib set up with lines instead of the usual track and car on the foredeck.



Sorry, I didn't take any photos.

[gulfcoastsailor]

I have the best self-tending jib system around IMO. See this ancient CF page for more info.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ces-35794.html

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by djmarchand

I have owned and sailed extensively two self tacking jib based boats: and Island Packet 37 and a Saga 43. Neither were pure main and jib rigs, but the principles would be the same and each handled the self tacking differently.

The main issue with jib self tacking is finding a way to keep the tension on the clew perpendicular to the luff.

The IP uses a boom, a straight piece of aluminum attached to a swivel just in back of the tack. Newer IPs use a curved Hoyt designed boom which does the same thing. The jib is controlled by triangular lines led to blocks on either side of the hull.

The Saga uses a curved track placed just in front of the mast. A single jib sheet line is attached to the clew of the sail, then to a block on the track, up to a block on the mast and then to a cleat.

I particularly loved the Saga's rig as tacking upwind was a simple matter of moving the rudder to a new tack. No releasing and winching in the other sheet on the tack. The IPs rig worked well, but I just liked the way the Saga did it.

From the foregoing explanation (admittedly sketchy) I hope that you can appreciate that this isn't a trivial problem and no temporary solution is going to work satisfactorily. Keeping the tension on the clew perpendicular to the liff takes significant hardware.

David

David has it right. It's a compromise. Some of my boats had a non boomed staysail . Tacking upwind could be done readily, but proper trimming on other points of sail could not without a Barber hauler style arrangement. It worked well with that though.
Your boat should readily tack with no headsail though. Fall off first gaining some speed then turn through the wind.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Your boat should readily tack with no headsail though. Fall off first gaining some speed then turn through the wind.

Oh, I agree that it should. But it doesn't.


With the Genoa, the boat has to be held back by the helm after crossing the wind otherwise she'll turn down onto a broad reach before you know it.



With the working jib, she's nicely balanced and well behaved.


With the main reefed (55% reduction) and the storm jib set (75% reduction), she'll tack grudgingly as long as I fall off the wind and pick up some speed first, as you suggest.


No jib at all, she's more likely than not to end up in irons. In light airs I'd rather jibe as that will always work. It's an older sail with poor shape, and that may be part of the problem.