Cruise capable, smaller boats?

[Don C L]

Oh, also the Columbia 26 mk1 May work for you too. It has 6’ headroom or close to it. All of these boats will require you to pack light for cruising for 2 or 3 weeks. The 26 has the advantage of an outboard well in the lazarette. I know your concerns about this but I will say the lazarette is sealed from the main compartment and the transom can be cut to allow the outboard to tilt up. It is not a bad set-up for a pocket cruiser. I had the 24 for 10 years and cruised local islands that way, it worked well for me. More room inside, no smell, no through-hulls etc.

[GreatLakeSailor]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Ok, I’ll certainly recommend mine, Columbia 29. It has the 8’ beam. Feel free to check my albums for photos. However they did not come with wheels, and a diesel onboard would have been an upgrade from the A4. I know you are set on a wheel, but I too would recommend against it. I think any boat with an 8’ beam will be very tight for the wheel. And, in my boat I can raise the tiller so it does not occupy the cockpit and, given the angle of the rudder stock, I can steer while sitting on the lazarette with the tiller all the way up. So that is sort of having a wheel.

Thanks for chiming in!

Originally Posted by Don C L

My boat weighs in upwards of 8k# so realistically you’d need a 3 axle trailer and a truck that can tow over 10k#. I know there are a few up there in the Great Lakes!

See post #13, answer to A:

Originally Posted by GreatLakeSailor

For example: I'm not going find a boat that has a beam width of under 8'6" that weighs 10,000lbs. The towing specs show 15,700lbs max for my truck (on the surface - there are other numbers that factor in to the equation, but for simplicity's sake in my example here we'll use it). If I had a boat that was 10,000lbs that still allows for 5,700lbs for the trailer - for that size of trailer that is a respectable weight allowance. For the example, though - the boat weight of 10,000lbs - is still in the realm of reason = it is not a limiting factor because, going back to the beam width, I doubt you will find any boat with a beam width under 8'6" that weighs even close to 10,000lbs. They are more in the 2,000-4,000lb weight class (6,000 to 8,000lbs shy, or 6,000-8,000lbs of head room if you want to look at it that way).

Even at the 8k weight class thats 2k headroom, just in the simple "tossing numbers around" example (lots more to it, but its some kind of numerical picture to follow).

[Don C L]

I forgot to mention, there was a long thread on this topic a while back. I can’t link it now but if you use the search mode for “trailerable blue-ocean: exists?” you’ll find it. Actually if you search “trailerable” you may also find other good threads too.

[GreatLakeSailor]

Originally Posted by Don C L

I forgot to mention, there was a long thread on this topic a while back. I can’t link it now but if you use the search mode for “trailerable blue-ocean: exists?” you’ll find it. Actually if you search “trailerable” you may also find other good threads too.

I assume its this one:


https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ts-193354.html

[GreatLakeSailor]

Uh oh. I probably shouldn't have opened that thread...



Post # 19 - "canting" trailer = roll the boat over.



Going back to "beam width" being the number that reflects "width" in relation to a sailboat, that is only measured in the horizontal plane.


DOT regs are in the horizontal plane as they pertain to the horizontal width the object going down the road requires.



If said object (sailboat) is tilted so as to bring the wide width out of the horizontal plane and angled = the "beam width" of a boat becomes the hypotnuse of a right triangle, where as the long leg of the triangle is the base in the horizontal plane.



This idea introduces another big challenge, though = weight distribution and balance side-to-side. From my over-the-road days - thats a lot easier to deal with (within reason - and I've visually seen and pulled trailers listing at rest*) than improperly balanced front-to-back (more specifically with bumper-pull trailers here, rather then semi/gooseneck/5th wheel trailers).


*A listing trailer/load isn't necessarily improperly loaded. Weight distribution and size/shape distribution are 2 totally different things. If a load can be placed on a trailer so as to fit the dimensions, regardless of it being off-balance side-to-side (steel structural frame assemblies are one example where this happens), as long as it is stable down the road it's fine. The most unstable load I ever ran was hay - perfectly balanced side to side and fore/aft, but it was uniform weight distribution all the way up which created a top-heavy load. I'd much rather pull a listing load than a top-heavy load.



For a 9'3" wide boat (Hunter 27 as in my other thread) - that would be a tilt of 66.7685deg to get to 8'6" width in the horizontal plane.... Without dropping the low side, that would be lifting the high side 7.81'



How does someone tilt a trailer? Use a pivoting/hinged frame on hydraulics of some kind. That's pretty simple to do once geometry is figure out. Think of how many farm implements (planters, tillage pieces like rippers and disks, sprayer booms, and the like) fold up and go down the road. No difference. In fact - those are much more complicated hydraulic circuits. Same goes for detatchable gooseneck lowboys where heavy equipment is front loaded with the truck and gooseneck split off. Movable (even split-able) trailer frames are used all the time.


Just some examples - Myco Trailers makes these commercially:
http://www.mycotrailers.com/tilt-trailers.html

[Don C L]

Boy I sure would not consider tilting a heavy keel boat. Don’t forget you have house and life lines too that would start to add to width ... ahh, just imagining it makes me nervous... but perhaps I am the nervous type...

[TampaTom]

Compac 25. Later models came with a Westerbeke 12C. Wheel helm was an option but most will have a tiller.

[Jim Cate]

Ya know, there may be a reason that you are not finding boats that meet all of your criteria. One such reason is that it is nigh impossible to cram all those requirements into the size package that y ou envision.

And one factor that no one has leaned on yet: a boat that did meet those specs would be VERY difficult to self launch on a ramp, and I doubt if many "cottage lakes" have travel lifts lurking around to help out.

You may need to rethink which of your criteria are the most important to you and drop one or more of the most restrictive ones.

Finally, your aversion to tiller steering when you have not spent time sailing such a craft is kinda premature. Extrapolating from driving an outboard powered and steered runabout to a small cruising sailboat is not a realistic process. You should really try it out before you condemn the concept.

Jim

[Don C L]

All true though I’d add that there are folks who use a tongue extension to get more distance down the ramp to get the boat floating. The tongue extensions I have seen are almost as long as the trailer and ride along under the boat while traveling. Still that will depend on the angle of the ramp and where the exhaust is on the truck!
And make sure you have a safe and easy way to raise the mast of course.

[laika]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Our boat is 19'. Definitely small, but not as bathtubby as a WWP inside. A fixed head, and a folding table on the keel trunk, but everything else (water, basin, butane stove) is loose and stowed til needed, which leaves more space in the cabin for sitting and sleeping.

And we have friends enjoying their McGregors (one a 26D, one a 26M) and doing some towing and cruising..

We've kept our boat on Lake Ontario for going on 14 years now. There's very few days where we were forced off the water because of heavy weather. She's a dream to tow, and we go to a different spot just about every year, including several nice cottage lakes.

In your shoes (which I almost am), I would ideally have something 25' to 30' at a club or marina on the Great Lakes, and would also put a fun small boat like ours at the cottage. Easy and fun to sail, and more than adequate for spending a night or two aboard. And I would charter or crew for friends if I wanted to sail at an exotic destination.

I'd just chime in.. dont overlook the fun and adventure to be had in a very light sailing craft. We have a 100lb 17' 'expedition sailing dory' which we built and use during the summer months up in Minnesota. Last year we took an extended trip thru the Apostle Islands. It's a lot more fun to sail than our heavy Vancouver 27.

It's also the easiest thing in the world to tow, super cheap to own, and provides the luxury of being able to duck into coves and beaches where the bigger boats can't linger because there's not a tenable anchorage. Opens up a lot of options.

Good luck in your search.

[TheLuckyone]

At risk of sounding like a fanboy, my Westerly Centaur fits the bill, 'cept for the wheel & two-axis gimballed stove:

• Beam: 8' 5"
• Diesel inboard
• Meets my standards for comfort space
• I'm five foot 10" with a couple inches of headroom to spare in the main cabin
• 26' length
• 3' draft
• Moderately built flatbed trailer will do
• Gonna need a good sized truck, F250 or 2500 has plenty of towing capacity to spare

Yeah, yeah, yeah... it's a twin keeler, doesn't sail as close upwind as a fin keeled boat, but if you want to tow, it's hard to beat the benefits of needing "only" a flat bed. Everything's a compromise.

Might be a bit difficult to find one on this side of the Atlantic, but keep your eyes & ears open... one might pop up.

[GreatLakeSailor]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

And one factor that no one has leaned on yet: a boat that did meet those specs would be VERY difficult to self launch on a ramp, and I doubt if many "cottage lakes" have travel lifts lurking around to help out.

Originally Posted by Don C L

All true though I’d add that there are folks who use a tongue extension to get more distance down the ramp to get the boat floating. The tongue extensions I have seen are almost as long as the trailer and ride along under the boat while traveling. Still that will depend on the angle of the ramp and where the exhaust is on the truck!
And make sure you have a safe and easy way to raise the mast of course.

Jim and Don -

Thank you for your comments.

Please see my thread from last year below - trailer launching a sailboat has been considered. There is another link in there (in post #10 of the thread below) to the build thread - with pictures and a video*, if you are inclined to check it out. Keep in mind that was the "first run" in the video so it is a bit squirrely backing in. That was also only using 2 frame extensions (I have 4 total, if I need more I can make them) . Lots of theory in the two threads there for the concepts and development of the idea.



*It is worth mentioning that launch in the video is NOT on the lake we're on. That is another lake and that launch is absolutely no place for a sailboat. Outside of that bay it is actually the deepest lake in the region, just the shallowest launch (funny how that works...). The boat is our 18' lund. That boat is hard enough to deal with for as shallow as the launch is. That launch location was just one of many reasons for the dolly.


https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...at-217169.html

As for the ability to launch in a smaller lake - we have a relatively private landing (not very high traffic at all) to use so set up there (if it takes a day or two of rigging) isn't an issue. The only question is if I can get a trailer deep enough to float a sailboat off of there in the bay. Theres another launch that is about 2 water miles away that I can access as well. I would presume that one is deeper than the one we normally use.

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Finally, your aversion to tiller steering when you have not spent time sailing such a craft is kinda premature. Extrapolating from driving an outboard powered and steered runabout to a small cruising sailboat is not a realistic process. You should really try it out before you condemn the concept.

Thanks for the perspective. It is certainly worth a few runs in some boats to experience.

[Dennis.G]

I had a Dana 24 which is a great rugged cruiser. It was I think a inch or two over 8'6" beam, but that is just at the widest point and we trailered with no problems. Inboard Yanmar diesel. Draft just over 4 foot as I remember. Gimbaled stove/oven. I could easily stand inside and I am 6' tall. About 8500 lbs weight, and just under 10,000 lbs with trailer. Towed with a Ram 2500 diesel pickup truck no problem.

Did not have a wheel and for heaven's sake do not even think about wrecking a Dana by retrofitting it with a wheel!

[Cpt. Dolby]

First, I would second the opinion of a Seaward. My father owns a Seaward 25 (mid 2000’s before they came out with the RK version) it’s a wonderful tailerable boat and I would definitely cruise it, very well built. Second, I owned a 1981 Watkins 27 that meets all but the gimbled stove requirements, special trailer needed. I lived on and cruised this boat for over 2 years and 6000 plus miles in between Delaware and the Bahamas. At the time I was in my mid 20’s (10years ago) and entering the cruising Lifestyle. I had a tiller version but they did make one with a wheel. Had a Yanmar 2qm15 diesel that was bulletproof and easy to maintain. The second year of cruising it was me and my girl, and we had plenty of adventures. I felt comfortable taking her (the boat) offshore on longer passages. Overall it was a great boat and the price is not as much as a Seaward but Im Sure it would require a refit to get one ready to cruise. There is a Watkins owners website that can be a ton of help! Currently I am refitting a 1989 Seaward 23 to cruise southwest Florida and the keys. Maybe run it out to the Bahamas as well. This is a great topic and any questions you have I’ll be happy to give my input! Good Luck in your search!!!

[dennismenace111]

Originally Posted by GreatLakeSailor

I've been going through some online listings just to see whats out there for boats. Maybe what I'm looking for just doesn't exist.


What I'm looking for is a boat like a Hunter, Classic, or O'Day, 70's-80's vintage, with:
- beam width between 8' and 8'6"
- diesel inboard
- wheel steer (or the ability to convert to)
- Interior accommodating several days to a couple weeks of time onboard
--- Preferably a gimbal-mounted range, but that may not be too hard to upgrade to (looks like most gimbals are 1 axis - roll, not pitch, so maybe an upgrade to dual axis would be best - smaller boats will pitch more anyway)

- 6' or more headroom below deck

- Length - as big as possible (limiting dimension appears to be the beam width)
- 4' draft or less ideally



The Classic 26 is 8'4", for example, but uses an outboard motor.



Boats like West Wight Potters and MacGregors are too much like glorified bathtubs inside and too small. Same goes for Hunters etc under 25' - too small. Any of them newer than 90's vintage all seem like the same kind of bathtub-like construction inside.


Any other ideas from the group to look in to? I suppose if what I was looking for was more common I would have come across more by now. Just trying to get some ideas...

Consider a Watkins 27, 29 or 30. The 27 draws 3'8" and has a 10' beam. The 29 and 30 draw 4' and have a 10'4" beam. Big enough to have a pool table down below.. Not fast by any stretch, but a comfortable cruiser.