cruising the world with a motorsailer - smart or stupid?

[Ibetitsthisway]

Hi everybody,

maybe the other thread is too specific. But as I am looking for a sturdy boat for traveling the ice and all other areas too, I want to buy a steel boat.
well... and it occures that quite a high percentage of steel sail boats are motorsailers.
now - what I do like about motoring is the accuracy with which one can plan its travels. in addition thay are heavy, often thick plated and spacy.
thus - is buying a motorsailor smart, or is it stupid, because its sailing capabilities are so very limited, that it is simply enoying every day?

I have never sailed MS for more than a day and I cant judge the "feeling" on prolonged travels.

I know - some say that good sailing (speed and good upwind) capabilities play an important part in offshore safety.

regards
ralph

[a64pilot]

I don’t know anything about ice, but as an old Welder I’d be real comfortable with a steel boat myself. But I have heard over and over, be very careful as there are great ones, and ones not so great, it all has to do with how they are built of course, you don’t want to buy one that holds water everywhere and is a rust bucket.
I feel that finding a good knowledgeable surveyor is almost as important as finding the right boat, a good surveyor can save you a LOT of heartache, unless of course your a steel boat expert yourself, and that’s what your looking for, not the best Island Packet surveyor there is, but a steel boat specialist, and you may have it pay for him or her to travel.
So far as motorsailer, people will argue the point of course, but I find that most sailboats regardless of hull number or material seem to often motor.
I’d try to get a boat that sails OK, not a powerboat with a steadying sail myself, especially if your planning long distances.

[BenBowSirocco]

Fatty Goodlander sails one- circumnavigation number 4 at the moment I believe.
You could email him for his opinion on pluses/minuses.

Skip Novak, king of sailing the Antarctic and many of the high latitude charter boats I read about seem to choose aluminum. It also appears to be popular among serial circumnavigaters.
But there are positive accounts of all sorts of steel vessels doing anything and everything, although in vessels over 50’ I might guess it had a cost benefit.

[HankOnthewater]

Going around the world in anything is a great adventure. But...... you don't want too much of that, for instance sailing east to west is mainly upwind and in a motorsailer it would be indeed a very looong adventure.
But following the trade routes, I can't see too many problems with such setup.

The only word of caution is that with following seas some hull shapes roll uncomfortably and/or zig-zag all the time, giving the autopilot a hard time. So try before you buy!

Of course there are motorsailers and then there other motorsailers, as A64pilot pointed out.

Look at the displacement/sailarea ratio, ie at https://www.sailboat-cruising.com/bo...placement.html. Also check what kind of engine it has, ie slow revving heavy duty engine, what diesel tankage and with the 2 afore mentioned, its range.

Lastly, many cruising boats are used as motorsailers anyway, because sailing upwind is not everybody's cup of tea, and for many 'sailors', if the boat speed drops below x Knots, the engine is started and sails are dropped/furled. Or, sails are kept up and the boat continues with motor assisted sailing... hmmm, in fact I do the latter at times, engine is just ticking over, can sail then a bit higher on the wind, and batteries are getting charged.

[Ibetitsthisway]

Hi folks

Thank you for the hints. I am into steel boats for a while. So i know some about the pros n cons of the Material...
But i cannot judge how they sail and If i like it.
I will contakt the mentioned people.
I know... Best is to try myself... But beforehand i wanted to check If it is worthwile to spend effort in organizing theses trials.

[Freedom45]

I’m not sure what is the true meaning of motosailer.
We have a steel boat , the po labeled it a motorsailer, we sail whenever there is wind, even a slight breeze.
However, we carry much more fuel than typical sailboats(about 700 gal)
Most of the cruising boats in the Pacific have jerry cans lined up on the deck.
Motoring is part of cruising.

Cheers.

[Sojourner]

Don't have any experience with this but my winter neighbor this year has a gorgeous Boreal 40-something. I doubt it's ice rated but it is a solid aluminum monohull built for cold climates. Very very sweet inside, raising keel (3m to 1.2m or something like that), seems very high quality fit and finish throughout. Might be worth a look:

https://www.boreal-yachts.com/?lang=en

Also. Most who've read my quacking on this forum know I wouldn't trade my Amel for anything. But recently an old Nauticat came to park next door for a few days.... made in Finland also for pretty harsh conditions, and quite cheap to get since they are 30+ years old, it came close. Not steel but probably quite overbuilt GRP, it was a beast. EDIT: Quite sure the newer or larger Nauticats are motorsailors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauticat_Yachts_Oy

[Ibetitsthisway]

Boreals are great boats - (though I am not sure about the swing keel) - but my budget would only by me a boreal aft cabin


nauticats are cool. but there are 2 "buts" -

1) the classic style with side doors is not seaworthy. I would never go on an ocean with this - the "sailing" versions are very nice


2) gfk. not for me. not for the ice.

[nortonscove]

You are not going into any amount of ice if you can help it. No yacht despite the literature is actually built for packs of sea ice. I live in the town that touted itself as the sealing capital of the world up until a few decades ago and the crews that still take part are without much variation made of fibreglass. This is why it's worth a chuckle when I read post by those that have never seen pack ice much less walking on it or navigating through it.

Take it from me and stay out of the ice because it's best viewed from the shore for more reasons than are reasonable to list.

[Ibetitsthisway]

Hey guys...



I said above:
Overexagerated.



I am Not going into the ICE. But navigate through.

And i hear of gfk Yachts That Hit log or ice and sink.

I hear about steel boats That Hit log and ice and Do not sink.

There is an Austrian couple sailing the ICE for four years now... Having also spent the Winters in ice on the boat. 7mm steel. They Are very careful. They Are slow. They Have Time. Nevertheless the Hull has damages from log and ice. Talk to them. Steel is the only Option.

All Else Are lucky.

The smallest ice class in europe lists steel Hull as criteria.

So... Discussion about All Kind of aspects Please Yes.. But Not about steel in ice.

[Steamer]

60-ft aluminum (5mm sides) blt 2004, repainted in 2004 (Germany), located in the Med France @ sweet asking price of Eur 185k. PM if of interest.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by nortonscove

You are not going into any amount of ice if you can help it. No yacht despite the literature is actually built for packs of sea ice. I live in the town that touted itself as the sealing capital of the world up until a few decades ago and the crews that still take part are without much variation made of fibreglass. This is why it's worth a chuckle when I read post by those that have never seen pack ice much less walking on it or navigating through it.

Take it from me and stay out of the ice because it's best viewed from the shore for more reasons than are reasonable to list.

Take a closer look at this post. Notice where this person is posting from. This would be the person I would listen to.

Very few of us have the same experience with ice as someone who lives in Newfoundland.

[Ibetitsthisway]

Originally Posted by Steamer

60-ft aluminum (5mm sides) blt 2004, repainted in 2004 (Germany), located in the Med France @ sweet asking price of Eur 185k. PM if of interest.

did it

[Hesti]

A fellow club member has a motor sailor. The way he explains it is, that the boat starts to move once the others have their first reef in (Force 5). So, basically undercanvassed for light winds. Now, it depends what the wind strengths are where you want to sail. I once read, that there is a tendency in northern Scotland to sail clipped riggs (shorter mast versions) as they tend to have more wind up there. Down here in Germany, such a boat would be a motor sailor, up there, it is a sailboat and a boat that would need its first reef in a force 4 would be seriously overcanvassed up there.

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by Ibetitsthisway

now - what I do like about motoring is the accuracy with which one can plan its travels.

https://www.sail-world.com/Australia...?source=google

2nd Transpac starters face grim wind prospects
by Rich Roberts on 12 Jul 2007

...So read the grim e-mail report from Psyche, Steve Calhoun's Cal 40 from Rancho Palos Verdes, Calif. that started the 44th Transpacific Yacht Race to Hawaii with 22 other boats Monday.

Although breezes up to 18 knots blew over the Southern California beaches Wednesday, the morning's position reports placed the early starters only 54 (Anna Katarina) to 105 (Peregrine) nautical miles offshore, averaging 1.6 (Lady Liberty) to 3.5 (Mysteré) knots in speed in winds described as light to nonexistent.

Jorge Morales Mysteré, a Swan 42 from Dana Point, Calif., was farthest along the 2,225-nautical mile track with 2,082 miles to go, while Michael Lawler's North Wind 47, Traveler, had logged only 64 miles after a six-hour re-start because of a crew injury.

One boat grew impatient, dropped its sails and turned on its engine. According to the Flagship satellite tracking system, Jim Partridge's Cal 2-46 from Pasadena, Calif. was motoring southwest directly toward Hawaii at 7.5 knots.

'They just want to get to Honolulu,' a Transpac official concluded.

Not just about scheduling. While an engine system can fail, the ability to motor 2,000 miles with relatively little need for physical exertion does offer a distinct safety countermeasure.