CS (Canadian Sailcraft) vs Caliber

[argosail]

Looking at a bluewater boat in the 35' range with an aft cabin/quarterberth, excellent ventilation (lots of open ports/hatches) for tropics, good tankage, reasonably good wind performance, fin keel with skeg-hung rudder, medium displacement.

I've looked at other brands (such as Wauquiez) but haven't seen any comparisons between Canadian Sailcraft and Caliber yachts. John Kretschmer rates the CS very well but Caliber also has some amazing reviews and it is cutter rigged.

If anyone has hands-on experience between the CS36T/CS33 (not the Merlin) and Caliber 33/35 LRC would love to hear it! Initial sailing would be East Coast US and Caribs, but eventual Bermuda and trans-atlantic. Extra points for ease of singe-handling.

[Cheechako]

At 33-35 feet, I wonder i f the cutter rig is really that useful?
Just a thought. I love it at 40+ feet....

[argosail]

Interesting, why would it not be useful at that LOA? I thought a cutter rig is best for storm conditions with more sail options than a sloop, though both models can heave-to nicely...

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by argosail

Interesting, why would it not be useful at that LOA? I thought a cutter rig is best for storm conditions with more sail options than a sloop, though both models can heave-to nicely...

It could be, no doubt. Didn't intend to diss the idea entirely. But probably wouldn't let it determine what boat to buy to much extent.

I have just found that at a small size, it's not much of a sail and is mostly a sail of 3 heavily reinforced corners with little shape! If you ARE going to use it heavy weather conditions it is thick and has large heavily reinforced Head, Tack and Clew extending well into the small sail.

Still, as a storm sail it will work good I suppose, just have little use otherwise. A lot of hardware, sail, stowage and trouble on the foredeck if you only use it in storm conditions maybe. But still a good option to have.
I had a staysail on a 44 (avatar) and 47 and liked them a lot. Had one on a 31 ft that was pretty much useless.

[Bobby Lex]

2 points to contribute:

1 -- regarding the usefulness of a staysail on a 36-footer. My previous boat was a Cheoy Lee 36' Cutter Ketch. I found the cutter rig to be quite versatile and the staysail quite useful. More useful than the mizzen sail, by far.

2 -- regarding Caliber sailboats. I currently own a Caliber 40 -- a bit bigger than the one the OP is considering. But the longer I own this boat and the more I get into its inner workings, the more I love it. Extremely well built and solid. Very stable and sea-worthy. Ventilation? 8 deck hatches, + the companionway hatch, and 16 opening portlights. Extremely well thought-out and well-designed.

Can you tell I really like my Caliber? I do.

To the OP, feel free to PM me if you have any questions about Calibers. I'd be more than happy to share whatever I know about them with you.

Bob

[argosail]

Originally Posted by Bobby Lex

2 points to contribute:

1 -- regarding the usefulness of a staysail on a 36-footer. My previous boat was a Cheoy Lee 36' Cutter Ketch. I found the cutter rig to be quite versatile and the staysail quite useful. More useful than the mizzen sail, by far.

2 -- regarding Caliber sailboats. I currently own a Caliber 40 -- a bit bigger than the one the OP is considering. But the longer I own this boat and the more I get into its inner workings, the more I love it. Extremely well built and solid. Very stable and sea-worthy. Ventilation? 8 deck hatches, + the companionway hatch, and 16 opening portlights. Extremely well thought-out and well-designed.

Can you tell I really like my Caliber? I do.

To the OP, feel free to PM me if you have any questions about Calibers. I'd be more than happy to share whatever I know about them with you.

Bob

That's awesome! My one concern with so many open ports (overall a lot more pros than closed ports for me) is the potential for leakage, however the Calibers all look to have solid SS ports. Have you had to re-seal/replace or repair any of the ports and any leakages?

[Bobby Lex]

Argosail, my boat was built in 1997, so it is going on 25 years old. The portlights are solid. No leaks. Hatches (good quality Lewmars) as well. I don't have any issues with the number of portlights. Here in Florida (and anywhere else in the tropics) you need as many as possible. They let in light as well as air, which is also important.

There are a lot of boats with large windows that don't open, which I suppose is good for letting in light. But IMO you gotta be able to get cross-ventilation going, too. So I really appreciate the thought that went into designing a boat with as many opening portlights as possible. Even my aft/guest cabin, a space which is usually an afterthought on many boats, has an opening hatch plus 2 opening portlights. (Although, I don't know whether it's the same arrangement on a Caliber 35).

Bottom line: Ventilation is good. The more the better.

Bob

[argosail]

Originally Posted by Bobby Lex

Argosail, my boat was built in 1997, so it is going on 25 years old. The portlights are solid. No leaks. Hatches (good quality Lewmars) as well. I don't have any issues with the number of portlights. Here in Florida (and anywhere else in the tropics) you need as many as possible. They let in light as well as air, which is also important.

There are a lot of boats with large windows that don't open, which I suppose is good for letting in light. But IMO you gotta be able to get cross-ventilation going, too. So I really appreciate the thought that went into designing a boat with as many opening portlights as possible. Even my aft/guest cabin, a space which is usually an afterthought on many boats, has an opening hatch plus 2 opening portlights. (Although, I don't know whether it's the same arrangement on a Caliber 35).

Bottom line: Ventilation is good. The more the better.

Bob

Yes you get a cross-breeze. I've noticed a lot of aft-cabin boats only have 1 open port so you'd have to install a fan. Good to know on the Caliber.

I did read of one instance of serious structural issues on the Caliber 35 but couldn't find any evidence or mention elsewhere online, perhaps you have:

///
There seems to be a major structural problem developing with Caliber 35s. Some Caliber 35s have developed the beginnings of hull structural failure at the area where the hull joins the leading edge of the keel. Cracks will be found running transversely from the front keel edge outward and there may be a zone of cracks 1-2 ft. wide. Caliber has supposedly designed a small bulkhead for retrofit to avoid/remedy the problem to prevent the keel rotation from overstressing or overflexing the hull. A friend of mine had a Caliber 35 which was out of warantee, cracked, and got a lot of help from the factory, but still had to do a major structural hull repair. The problem is supposedly becomming common.
.... NOT a good light air boat.
\\\

This was on Sailnet by a poster with over 5,000 posts, so it might be true but seems to be an outlier, and not common. It was also posted in 2001, so this should have reappeared somewhere but it hasn't, any idea your end?

Would ofc need a through survey with key attention paid to this but I doubt it's as bad as the poster says.

[Bobby Lex]

I had not heard of that issue with the 35, although my focus was on the 40.

I did have the opportunity to meet with George McCreary who together with his brother Michael started and ran Caliber Yachts. They don't build boats anymore, but George runs a yacht brokerage business that mostly deals in Caliber re-sales.

He is a wealth of information about these boats and during my dealings with him he wasn't reluctant to share any and all information about his boats. IMO he was very forthcoming and candid. So if you get serious about a 35, I'd recommend you contact him at Caliber Yacht Brokers, and pick his brain. Like I said, he's a wealth of information.

Good luck with your search.

Bob