Cutter/sloop sail question

[Charlie]

Wheels:

Been a long time since I studied those questions but I think that COR is center of resistance. You are correct on COE. What I like about a cutter rig is the ability to reduce sail in a convenient manner.

I like this procedure.

1) Roll up jib to 100% (it should be second but it is so easy)

2) Take in a Reef.

3) Roll up balance of jib set Staysail

4) Take in Second Reef.

5) Set Storm staysail.

6) Furl Main.

7) See how boat balances with storm staysail alone.

8) Set trysail.

9) Set Jordan Series Drogue

10) Step up into liferaft.

11) Put head between knees and see if you can kiss your ass goodbye.


I don't like the ketch rig because there are two masts to take care of. It does have many other good points though.

[Richhh]

For a good discussion on cutters go to the SSCA discussions boards, join the group, then do a search for "drawbacks of cutters ?". A lot of knowledgeable folks including Bob Perry, etc. had a quite interesting/sane discussion on them, etc.

[delmarrey]

Here's another good read..........................._/)
Go here and click on double head rig.
http://www.arvelgentry.com/magaz.htm

[Brent Swain]

The mistake of moving the mast aft when converting from sloop to cutter is common. It usually results in an extremely strong weather helm. When converting from sloop to cutter, don't move the mast. Ditto for setting a staysail on a ketch, or converting a ketch to cutter or sloop. Don't move the mast.Adding the staysail doesn't change the balance at all.
Brent
Brent

[SkiprJohn]

Hmmmmm!!
JohnL

[SkiprJohn]

Cutters have masts further aft because they use smaller mains with shorter booms and a larger headsail area where two headsails will fit. This balances the rig.
If you just add a forestay to a sloop without moving the mast and changing the size of your mainsail you have a double headed sloop, not a cutter.
Kind Regards,
JohnL

[StevenPalmer51]

My Kaiulani 38 was designed by Ted Brewer as a cutter but was custom built for the original owner who didn't want the bowsprit. Still has two head-stays. Is it a Cutter or a Double headed sloop? I don't know if the mast was moved forward because the bowsprit was eliminated although the mast is 30 inches taller than the original design.

[Pblais]

Is it a Cutter or a Double headed sloop?

It's only a definition by tradition. Does it matter?

In the end you are only attempting to balance the rig. What you do is what you learn to do to make that happen as often as possible. If you really try to look and learn to see what works you can get close enough m0ost of the time.

If you walked onto a different boat you would seek the same balance? I think you would. All boats have differences that you have to learn.

[CSY Man]

The mistake of moving the mast aft when converting from sloop to cutter is common. It usually results in an extremely strong weather helm.

Ain't that the truth....

Have lots of weather helm on my cutter unless I ease sails to the point of easing too much horsepower.

My rigger man suggested tuning the mast differently, but have not gotten around to it.

[StevenPalmer51]

Originally Posted by Pblais

It's only a definition by tradition. Does it matter?

Well, I asked for a spade and he handed me a shovel.... sometimes it does make a difference. But you are correct, if I mistakenly call it a Cutter, it won't make it sail any differently!

[Pblais]

CSY Man

On both the CSY and the Gozzard (both Cutters) I notice that what you often think of as weather helm is actually rudder loading. They both have a barn door rudder and if you lay it over too far the loading feels like weather helm, but it's not. Getting more upright always seems to cure it (you only go a little bit slower). The Admiral likes that part. It's not as much fun though.

The CSY laid over 40 degrees flying all the sail in a 30 knot wind will move pretty fast and be quite stable! Crashes through 6ft chop like butter too plus you stay dry. The problem is it is a serious handful to hang on to the wheel for any length of time.

[SkiprJohn]

Aloha Steven,
I have a lot of respect for Ted Brewer and his designs. You have a 38 foot LOD boat. Could you tell me how far aft the mast is from your stem? What is the distance from your headstay to your forestay? Do you sail with both headsals?
Kind Regards,
JohnL

[SkiprJohn]

Aloha CSY,
You sure you have a cutter?
JohnL

[CSY Man]

Aloha CSY,
You sure you have a cutter?
JohnL

Uh, maybe I have been wrong all these years, but she looks like a cutter, sails like a cutter and yeah, I think it is a cutter...

Where did I go wrong?

I notice that what you often think of as weather helm is actually rudder loading.

Hmm, could be, but for now I think it is weather helm.
(Will rethink the porblem when I sober up)

[CSY Man]