Dehler 22 - Thoughts?

[ErBrown]

Howdy folks,

We're finally getting serious about finding our first sailboat and are considering a Dehler 22. Previously we've been looking at catalina 22 and a few others but for one reason or another they've fallen through.

I've never heard of the Dehler but it's a nice looking little boat and I'm curious if anyone here has experience with them. Any thoughts on how they compare to other options in that size range and overall quality and sailability for two total newbies?

[D.D.]

Do a google search for more info that you are seeking...

[ErBrown]

Thanks for the amazing insight. Already done that and am reading a bit here and there. The reason for posting the question here was to get opinions from actual cruisers or wannabe cruisers (like myself).

Also did a forum search before asking and didn't see anything relevant.

[D.D.]

No intelligence insult intended. Many post here without doing any searches and expect everone else to do it for them. Now, depends on what you want to do with the boat. Catalina 22 w/ swing keel can gunkhole easier and can be trailered. Fixed keel will sail much differently and allow you to point higher. Dehler's were/are good boats and well built. If possible, you need to sail it. Also look at equipment for jib tending. Are the winches self tailing which will make your crew MUCH happier and allow you more single handed sailing. There area a plethora of boats out there in that size range...some are slow and dry, while others offer quite spirited sailing and can be wetter. Personally, I would give the Dehler some serious consideration. Also, look at a Merit 22 and Merit 25 and a Capri 22 and Capri 25 .

[ErBrown]

Thanks, I'm actually having a really hard time finding much info on the Dehler 22 at all. It is a lift keel and actually comes on a trailer but we'll be keeping int in the water on a fairly shallow lake or at least a large lake with some fairly shallow areas. The cove that our lake house is in, is pretty shallow so we need something capable of shallow draft in order to keep it at out dock.

Neither of us has much sailing experience so we're really looking for something that will be fun and somewhat versatile to sail and allow for us to anchor with a couple friends and just enjoy a few ice cold beverages. The fact that intel on this boat is so hard to come by makes me a bit cautious but from what I have seen in the pics and a few discussions in Luther forums it seems like a quality boat. Has a solid shallow keel with a lifting (centerboard'sh) option and a bracket on a track for a small outboard which is important due to storage location.

It's a bit of a drive to go see it in person but the price is right, in range with Catalina 22s of similar age. Just wanting to be sure it's worth looking at before making a 6-7hr round trip to go check it out in person.

Thanks again

[Coops]

They have a bit of info on google and a few you tube videos. It would seem that Van de Stadt was the designer, so that is not a bad thing at all.

Try here and download the file. It is spelt wrong, not unusual for this site, but I think that it is the same boat.

http://www.johncrawfordmarine.com.au.../173-dehlya-22

Coops.

[D.D.]

Here's a Yacht World link for 22'-24' swing keel sailboats for sale. Good jumping off point and price reference. Catalina 22 is a very well known boat and re-sale will probably be easier as opposed tothe Dehler. That also is a consideration as the Dehler seller may be experiencing those problems as well. What are your draft limitations?

swing keel (Sail) Boats For Sale

[ErBrown]

Thanks Coops, that's a cool little brochure I hadn't seen yet. My understanding is that the Dehler model was the production version and that Dehlya was the kit option, so looks like this is a yard that takes the Dehlya kit and combines it with some pretty nice options. The current owner of the boat I'm considering (Dehler prod model) was under the impression that it was a solid keel but after reading in so many places that about half the displacement is water ballast, I think that has to be the case. Is it possible that the water ballast just fills automatically when placed in the water and he just doesn't realize it's there? Sounds like he bought it 6 months ago from an active racer and hasn't really sailed it much, if it all since.

Also, one of our concerns is ease of stepping and raising the mast. I've read in one location that stepping is a two person job (not an issue) but that raising takes 3 which would be a problem, since most times it will just be my wife and I. Our slip will require stepping the mast for storage, so this will be a common task.

That and overall sail ability and quality are the types of things I'm hoping someone here can comment on.

DD - that is part of my concern the Catalina 22 seems to be much more common. As for draft either will work anything capable of less than 2ft (for slip entry) will work for us.

[D.D.]

Usually water ballasted boats need to have the water hand or electric pumped into and out of their tanks. Here is the Dehler 22 manual..

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...20handbook.pdf

[D.D.]

Did find this owners review on Yachting and Boaters World site from a few years ago.


__________________________________________________ ___

I've got a 22. The first thing to bear in mind is they are mostly twenty years old now. I think they were nearly all home finished from assorted option packs, so standard of finish is largely down to the skills & wallet size of the first owner.

They are well made, but you really should have a survey regardless. Its bound to find things you do not spot. They sail brilliantly being superbly balanced and quite exciting upwind. With the water ballast and lightly ballasted drop keel you do have to sail them a bit flatter than a deep keel, but you soon get the hang. The cockpit is quite small, and this can be a problem as the main traveller has savaged my wife's knees a couple of times.

As most of them are/were lake sailed in Germany they usually have a nice big genny and the rig is quite tall, so there is plenty of power to play with, and perhaps a tad too much when it get blowy..but then you roll up the genny and put in a reef.

You do need to check if the keel has had an overhaul. This is a job for the professionals, but on the other hand I overhauled the water ballast valve myself in an afternoon.

Most parts can be obtained from Marina Grossenbrode in Germany. They do speak a little English, but most documentation is in German, so it helps to have at least a greeting available in their mother tongue when you speak.

There are four reasonably good sized berths, but its very cosy, so its probably not a prospect for four for longer than a weekend unless you are very good friends or have small kids. For two its a perfect pocket rocket.

I was really hunting for a Parker 21 (Parkers are local to me), but prices seemed a bit higher than I wanted to pay, and with the money burning a hole in my pocket I probably jumped quicker than I should and bought the Dehler. No regrets, its a very nice little thorougbred, and I come from a racing dinghy background, so I did not want a sailing slug anyway [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[ErBrown]

I've definitely noticed the issue with much of the docs being in German. Even the English version of the owners manual has most components (like standing rigging) labelled in German. Not exactly a show stopper but concerns me with long-term self supportability, which is a big factor for us.

I keep coming back around to the Catalina 22 or 25 (though at a minimum draft of 2'8" it makes me nervous) or possibly the Starwind 22 as options.

Tough call to make...

[Coops]

if you are doing a search for the Catalina 22, you can also do one for the Boomaroo 22 which is the same boat in Australia.

Brisbane Boat Sales - John Crawford Marine - Used Second Hand Boats

Coops.

[D.D.]

Starwinds are great boats. Have sailed on one and liked it. Stable and dry and quite comfortable. Quality seems better than the Catalina 22 and there are a known boat. Great lake boat and fun to learn on wothout breaking the bank. Of coarse with all boat purchases, a survey is prudent especially due to the boats age.

[Barney Post]

Originally Posted by D.D.

Usually water ballasted boats need to have the water hand or electric pumped into and out of their tanks. Here is the Dehler 22 manual..

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...20handbook.pdf

It doesn't say anything about the water ballast.

[D.D.]

Barney Post: Boat was built with either a swing keel w/water ballast or a fixed keel version. Please see last line of add below.

DEHLYA 22

Hull Type:Lifting KeelRig Type:Fractional SloopLOA:21.65' / 6.60mLWL:18.05' / 5.50mBeam:7.87' / 2.40mListed SA:210 ft2 / 19.51 m2Draft (max.)1.30' / 0.40mDraft (min.)Disp.1980 lbs./ 898 kgs.Ballast:880 lbs. / 399 kgs.SA/Disp.:21.36Bal./Disp.:44.43%Disp./Len.:150.31Designer:E. G. van de Stadt Builder:Dehler (DEU)Construct.:FGBal. type:First Built:1983Last Built:# Built:
RIG DIMENSIONS KEYI:23.80' / 7.25mJ:7.00' / 2.13mP:25.90' / 7.89mE:9.80' / 2.99mPY:EY:SPL:ISP:SA(Fore.):83.30 ft2 / 7.74 m2SA(Main):126.91 ft2 / 11.79 m2Total(calc.)SA:210.21 ft2 / 19.53 m2DL ratio:150.31SA/Disp:21.38Est. Forestay Len.:24.81' / 7.56mBUILDERS (past & present)More about & boats built by: Dehler YachtsDESIGNERMore about & boats designed by: E. G. van de StadtNOTESVDS design #374
Similar to DEHLER 22. 'DEHLYA' was the name chosen to denote Dehler's home-completion boats.
Retractable keel and rudder with water ballast though a fixed keel version was also available.

DEHLYA 22

Hull Type:Lifting KeelRig Type:Fractional SloopLOA:21.65' / 6.60mLWL:18.05' / 5.50mBeam:7.87' / 2.40mListed SA:210 ft2 / 19.51 m2Draft (max.)1.30' / 0.40mDraft (min.)Disp.1980 lbs./ 898 kgs.Ballast:880 lbs. / 399 kgs.SA/Disp.:21.36Bal./Disp.:44.43%Disp./Len.:150.31Designer:E. G. van de Stadt Builder:Dehler (DEU)Construct.:FGBal. type:First Built:1983Last Built:# Built:
RIG DIMENSIONS KEYI:23.80' / 7.25mJ:7.00' / 2.13mP:25.90' / 7.89mE:9.80' / 2.99mPY:EY:SPL:ISP:SA(Fore.):83.30 ft2 / 7.74 m2SA(Main):126.91 ft2 / 11.79 m2Total(calc.)SA:210.21 ft2 / 19.53 m2DL ratio:150.31SA/Disp:21.38Est. Forestay Len.:24.81' / 7.56mBUILDERS (past & present)More about & boats built by: Dehler YachtsDESIGNERMore about & boats designed by: E. G. van de StadtNOTESVDS design #374
Similar to DEHLER 22. 'DEHLYA' was the name chosen to denote Dehler's home-completion boats.
Retractable keel and rudder with water ballast though a fixed keel version was also available.