Dehler 41 as a fast family boat

[Dvshannow]

Hi

I’ve been looking for a 40ft family boat and was zoning in on a Hanse 415 or Dufour 412

However I like the look of the Dehler 41

Q is it good as a family boat as well as being more fun for when out with friends?
Do they sail ok solo - like say a Hanse?
Why are they relatively more expensive than other similar boats - is Dehler considered in a higher bracket than Hanse/Jeanneau/Beneteau etc?

[DeValency]

Boats at this size are not made for a solo sailor, even the most experienced.

Dealer is a great boat and very well made, by far better than the two mentioned, hence, the price difference. It is a faster boat than the two mentioned.

I wouldn’t buy Hanse at any case. They are known their poor building quality, in spite of their show up.

[dfelsent]

It’s a question of how the boat is set up as well as size for solo sailing.
And your goals and skill.
I’ve cruised and distance raced big boats, solo. Setup and planning are key. Take your time. Be cautious. Always have a plan.
I personally wouldn’t be concerned about sailing a boat that size solo, if it were properly set up. That includes rigging, navigation equipment, autopilot, engine maintenance and for sure safety gear. And don’t forget provisions and the galley. Food and drink are essential. When it’s cold and wet a can of warm soup is fantastic.
I also wouldn’t sail it the same way as I would with a crew, even double handed. And I would want to know the boat well first.
But you must have experience. And there is no better way to get that than to go sailing!

[Dvshannow]

thanks for replies

to clarify by solo sailing i did not mean extended solo voyages, but when out with the family i am currently the only active sailor - so would have help with things like helming but nothing more active.

Interesting you said the Dehler is much better , which explains the the price! Since they are under Hanse they are similar hull constructions and the interiors look fairly basic so you are paying most that premium in the hardware/rigging?

They are great looking boats too,

[DeValency]

Originally Posted by Dvshannow

thanks for replies

to clarify by solo sailing i did not mean extended solo voyages, but when out with the family i am currently the only active sailor - so would have help with things like helming but nothing more active.

Interesting you said the Dehler is much better , which explains the the price! Since they are under Hanse they are similar hull constructions and the interiors look fairly basic so you are paying most that premium in the hardware/rigging?

They are great looking boats too,

Hanse and Dehler do not share the same hulls, although may look the same like most new boats these days. For sure, the rigging, fittings, interior materials and workmanship is few classes higher than Hanse.

For example, my Contest 43’ price was about twice of a Beneteau of the same general features.

If you sail with a family, given their age, they must learn how to crew. There is no boat that sails itself. Even leaving a dock and especially returning need at most cases two people at a 40-45’ boat. Any kid older than 13 or so and of course a wife could learn the basics within a reasonable time in a sailing club or by taking a course. Apart from the safety it is way more of a family fun to crew together.

Sounds like you do not have a lot of experience, so joining a club with good educational program for a year or two before buying a boat can be a wise plan.

As for the former post suggesting a solo cruising (and racing??? - I wonder how he hoist and take down a spinnaker around a mark at 15 Kts + single handed.., ) with such a boat size.... with all due respect not everything technically possible is safe nor wise. This is a dangerous idea and I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone, even not to experienced racers and cruisers (I sailed, raced and cruised extensively and worldwide since I was 11, holding dual offshore skipper license - and I would never go solo on anything larger than 20’ that is rigged for solo handling and for day sailing only)

[guyrj33]

Originally Posted by DeValency

Hanse and Dehler do not share the same hulls, although may look the same like most new boats these days. For sure, the rigging, fittings, interior materials and workmanship is few classes higher than Hanse.

For example, my Contest 43’ price was about twice of a Beneteau of the same general features.

If you sail with a family, given their age, they must learn how to crew. There is no boat that sails itself. Even leaving a dock and especially returning need at most cases two people at a 40-45’ boat. Any kid older than 13 or so and of course a wife could learn the basics within a reasonable time in a sailing club or by taking a course. Apart from the safety it is way more of a family fun to crew together.

Sounds like you do not have a lot of experience, so joining a club with good educational program for a year or two before buying a boat can be a wise plan.

As for the former post suggesting a solo cruising (and racing??? - I wonder how he hoist and take down a spinnaker around a mark at 15 Kts + single handed.., ) with such a boat size.... with all due respect not everything technically possible is safe nor wise. This is a dangerous idea and I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone, even not to experienced racers and cruisers (I sailed, raced and cruised extensively and worldwide since I was 11, holding dual offshore skipper license - and I would never go solo on anything larger than 20’ that is rigged for solo handling and for day sailing only)

I would never go solo on anything larger than 20’ that is rigged for solo handling and for day sailing only

You're kidding right? It's sarcasm isn't it.

[zstine]

Not sure what's up with the anti-solo sentiment. I've sailed my 1975 T41 many times solo, including several overnight passages. And that boat was built for a racing crew and is basically as it came from the factory, with the addition of an autopilot. I've even flown the spinnaker solo... So yes, the Dehler 41 can be sailed solo by a competent sailor. Made easier with a good autohelm and a bow thruster would be nice, though not needed.

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by Dvshannow

thanks for replies

to clarify by solo sailing i did not mean extended solo voyages, but when out with the family i am currently the only active sailor - so would have help with things like helming but nothing more active.

Interesting you said the Dehler is much better , which explains the the price! Since they are under Hanse they are similar hull constructions and the interiors look fairly basic so you are paying most that premium in the hardware/rigging?

They are great looking boats too,

For a fast family boat, the first thing I would think of would be a catamaran as they tend to have four cabins and sail fairly flat and fast. You're talking monohulls here which will have limited berthing capacity in that size range which may prove uncomfortable for any extended cruising. You should really try to get your family actively involved which will lessen any seasick tendencies and reduce the boredom for the kids - you don't need to be hearing "are we there yet?" for multiple nautical mile trips. Even an eight year old can perform some useful tasks on a boat. If you're stuck on monohulls, you should also consider Hallberg Rassey, Fajad, Malo and Amel who all make very fine boats if you're comfortable buying something higher end.

[Dvshannow]

Originally Posted by joelhemington

For a fast family boat, the first thing I would think of would be a catamaran as they tend to have four cabins and sail fairly flat and fast. You're talking monohulls here which will have limited berthing capacity in that size range which may prove uncomfortable for any extended cruising. You should really try to get your family actively involved which will lessen any seasick tendencies and reduce the boredom for the kids - you don't need to be hearing "are we there yet?" for multiple nautical mile trips. Even an eight year old can perform some useful tasks on a boat. If you're stuck on monohulls, you should also consider Hallberg Rassey, Fajad, Malo and Amel who all make very fine boats if you're comfortable buying something higher end.

I want it to be fast as enjoy sailing a more performance orientated mono , not about getting places faster though thats not unwanted.

We would be mostly using the boat for weekends from a Solent base and the usual longer trips to Channel Islands, Scilly , Cornwall etc so not looking for an extended bluewater boat

Def stuck on monos the less chance of seasickness and space is a big draw for cats but i just prefer monos

HR, Malo and Southerlys are boats I’ve looked at , but find they are just a lot of money for a 10y+ old boat compared with Bav/Ben/Jen which i have seen

The Dehler intrigued me as its better looking than the above (to my eye) and looks more sporty than the HR/Malo while still seeming to have a lot of the space advantages of the AWBs though less plush

HR i do really like the new ones but they are 600+ for the 44ft and I’m not looking to spend that a Dehler 41 is spacious enough 3 cabins

So deciding between a 5-8y old Dehler or a 2-5y old Hanse/Dufour which seem to be a similar amount

[nortonscove]

Very nice boats and a friend sailed his solo with much ease.

[Tim Litchfield]

I bought a Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 389 five years ago and have learnt a lot in that time. I now realize more than ever that there is no perfect boat for everything. The thing I like about the Dehler boats is the set up is more racing oriented than most other cruising boats. Look at the traveler location and winches for example and you can see these boats can be sailed closer to the edge in a puff as you can play the traveler in a gust. Now that I’ve been doing some club level racing I look at Dehler boats with lustful eyes. But having said that I’m totally happy with my boat but just realize those extra features make a difference when racing.
As for cruising solo I agree with previous comments that this is quite manageable provided the boat is set up and you have acquired the knowledge and experience. It’s a great idea though to encourage your family to learn and take an active part in the sailing. I did the RYA Day Skipper course whist my wife did the Competent Crew course. It’s great to know that your spouse can take control in an emergency.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by guyrj33

I would never go solo on anything larger than 20’ that is rigged for solo handling and for day sailing only

You're kidding right? It's sarcasm isn't it.

I guess we will have to sell our boats

The answer is of course to think things through, do them in calm conditions first and practise. So instead of a spinnaker, use a asymmetric, use a snuffer and have an autopilot, likely already on board the boats he is looking at. Plenty of space in the Western Solent and Poole bay for these activities.

DVS, Covid restrictions aside, I think you need to visit some of these boats with the family to see what they think too. We were able to visit 5 identical in one afternoon to buy ours. 3 were okay, one smelled and the expression on daughters face at 10yr said it all before her mother even came on board. We bought the final one when the owner showed me a log book detailing every time he had started the engine for the past 19 years, all added up in minutes and hours.

I would also keep an eye out for other makes you may not have thought about when visiting a dealer. Thankfully you are in the ideal place with a huge number of boats to look at. Actually, your problem is too much choice rather than a 'Hobsons Choice'. You might find something completely different too:

https://www.jryachts.com/yachts-for-...cutter/1456049

Good luck.

Pete

[dfelsent]

Originally Posted by DeValency

As for the former post suggesting a solo cruising (and racing??? - I wonder how he hoist and take down a spinnaker around a mark at 15 Kts + single handed.., ) with such a boat size.... with all due respect not everything technically possible is safe nor wise. This is a dangerous idea and I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone, even not to experienced racers and cruisers (I sailed, raced and cruised extensively and worldwide since I was 11, holding dual offshore skipper license - and I would never go solo on anything larger than 20’ that is rigged for solo handling and for day sailing only)

I’m very far from an elite sailor.

Pretty straight forward. Symmetric spinnaker.
Every maneuver is planned well in advance. A gybe takes at least two miles. A drop and jib hoist the same.
Gybe with dip pole. Guys in hard to stabilize the chute. Main overtrimmed. Turn a few degrees at a time. Go forward drop the outboard end. Come back turn about more. Forward to reattach the pole to the new guy.
Back to the cockpit. Bring the course and chute around, gynecology the main. Slowly trim to the new course.
A drop and hoist? Put the chute in the shadow of the main. Bring the chute into the companionway between the boom and main. A letterbox drop. Now go forward to hoist the jib. Now wait til you are near the mark and start trimming. You will be fully trimmed before the mark so you don’t overstand. Round the mark and off you go.
On a 38’ 19000 lb boat.
One lesson for me as a long time buoy racer is that while these maneuvers take very little time and distance with a crew,, solo they take more time and distance than an entire leg of a typical day race.

The Vendee globe sailors can take over an hour to gybe.

https://youtu.be/jqfjuEsha5o

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by Dvshannow

I want it to be fast as enjoy sailing a more performance orientated mono , not about getting places faster though thats not unwanted.

We would be mostly using the boat for weekends from a Solent base and the usual longer trips to Channel Islands, Scilly , Cornwall etc so not looking for an extended bluewater boat

Def stuck on monos the less chance of seasickness and space is a big draw for cats but i just prefer monos

HR, Malo and Southerlys are boats I’ve looked at , but find they are just a lot of money for a 10y+ old boat compared with Bav/Ben/Jen which i have seen

The Dehler intrigued me as its better looking than the above (to my eye) and looks more sporty than the HR/Malo while still seeming to have a lot of the space advantages of the AWBs though less plush

HR i do really like the new ones but they are 600+ for the 44ft and I’m not looking to spend that a Dehler 41 is spacious enough 3 cabins

So deciding between a 5-8y old Dehler or a 2-5y old Hanse/Dufour which seem to be a similar amount

Aha, now I get it. You're looking for a sporty, performance weekender that will accommodate your family or friends should they choose to partake in the adventure. You just can't get that clean lean feeling hooning along at 8 to 10 knots on a cat (at least you better not ). Sounds like that Dehler will be plenty large enough - I always preferred the leeward settee anyway as a berth under sail but it doesn't sound like you're planning any night passages. Unless your family is totally on board with this plan it'll end up being more your dream than theirs. Admittedly, the boats I mentioned are geared more for trans ocean sailing than zipping around the coast. No reason you should spend that kind of money on something you won't be using or needing though it does sound like the Dehler could be outfitted for blue water if the build quality is as good as posted.

[s/v Jedi]

I sailed a Dehler 41 for years as we rented one before we bought Jedi. We could sail for hours close hauled without touching the steering wheel and without autopilot: the boat is very well balanced.

We sailed inland waters and the North Sea between Holland, Belgium and the UK. It handles very well offshore.

I did not like the belowdecks windlass.