Denis Ganley 34

[Solosailor]

Thanks MikeNZ. I'm getting wonderful support here. I too would be interested in your opinion of the Shadow 34 on Yacht World. It's the one in Sidney, B.C..

[daveyw]

I'm currently restoring a Shadow 37(shadow 35 with a sugar scoop). A few of the hull plates have been replaced and the deck needs replacing in places too. It is an '85 vintage, built professionally in wellington NZ. Been around the world twice and I'm the fourth owner. Hope to have her afloat next year sometime.

[MidLandOne]

DaveyW I remember TinFin, nice to hear where she has got too .

If I remember correctly she was one of a couple of Shadow 35's that the bare hulls were built by an engineering company in Wellington for finishing by the owners - as you say, around 1985. I am pretty certain TinFin was not professionally built apart from that.

If my recollection is correct on her being one of these boats they were built before Denis drew the Shadow 35 and were 34's "stretched" by the owners. One of the others was owned by a person I knew though and he told me that Denis had input into the "stretching". One of the first 35's built from Denis's drawings was built professionally in Christchurch, NZ back in the 1980's (speculatively built by the builder for the Auckland boat show I seem to recall). It actually appeared on the market again for sale some time last year.

[Solosailor]

This is all very interesting. Something has just occurred to me. Perhaps I’m a bit slow, but it seems very clear that brand of boats here in Canada are less known in NZ and most of the NZ designed and built boats are virtually unknown here. It therefore stands to reason that a NZ boats for sail in Canada could be a very good deal to someone in the know. Yes?

I would like to open this to all who have responded to this thread. You all seem very knowledgeable. What NZ boats should I consider looking for in Canada? Let’s extend that to the West Coast of the Excited States of America too?

Steve Pope mentioned Lidguard and Birdsal. Also Spencer, but I know Spencer’s were built here in Vancouver. I’m not sure if this is the same Spencer or not. Nonetheless they seem to have a good reputation.

While in NZ, I also came across Davidson.

[daveyw]

MidLandOne, You seem to know more about my boat than me!! I'm glad you confirmed the hull was profesionally built as that is all I have!! I bought her as an abandoned restroration project and the previous owner had already gutted her and had the hull plates professionally repaired where needed. I tried to track down the yard that built her (Wellington Marine) but could find no trace. Must have ceased trading

[MidLandOne]

DaveyW -

Your confirming Wellington Marine means that the boat is one of the ones I was thinking of. There were at least two of them built at the same time and the owners shared information during the builds. I very (very! once a year or so) occasionally run into the guy who built one using one of the other Wellington Marine hulls and if I come across him I'll see what I can get from him regarding TinFin.

Not sure what happened to Wellington Marine but I think most of their work was associated with the marine slipway that used to be in Wellington. That closed down must be sometime back in the 1980's.

SoloSailor -

Your request as to what boats from designers to look for would result in a very, very long list ranging from very well known international ones through to very good designers who might only design one custom sail boat every few years.

What you need to keep in mind is that there have been very few cruising sail boats built as production boats here and none of those for very many years. While some designers have stock designs these may have been built by anyone including amateurs so the quality of boats bearing the same model name from the same designer can be very variable (as is the case with Ganley's boats).

To give you a list would also run the risk of omitting some extremely well regarded designers (and who may have built the boats they design themselves too) of cruising sail boats such as Mick Orchard, Malcolm Dickson, Tim Barnett, etc who may have produced only a very small number of very well thought out highly regarded cruising boats. It would be a pity to miss one of these boats just because it wasn't on some list of designers.

My suggestion would be that any boat from a NZ designer who can claim to have designed at least a couple of sail boats is worth considering with the main question really being who actually built the boat. Then refer back to the forum with builder and designer's names.

[Solosailor]

MidLandOne, you have been very close if not right on the mark! I just received more information regarding this Shadow 34. The builder of this particular boat did use topside steel panels that are 3/16" instead of 1/8". He admits this was not necessary and that it adds 600 lbs or so. I does sound like he has done a reasonable job of the construction. I say this because I have asked other questions regarding metal prep and finishing. But I have a nagging issue I want to ask you. Do you think this extra weight will significantly effect the stability curve? The owner says he doesn't think the extra weight has had much effect on performance. What do you think?

[Steve Pope]

I doubt that the extra 600lbs would have any great bearing on the stability curve as it is spread over the entire deck, it may marginally make her a little more tender but I wouldn't think it would be noticeable. I'm sure Midland 1 will correct me if have it wrong. If you take into account the weight added or subtracted by having the tanks full or empty would have an equal effect.
Sounds a good sound boat, well worth considering.

[MidLandOne]

I am assuming from the designed plate thickness of 1/8 inch that by "topsides" you are referring to the deck and cabin trunk and not the sides of the hull (which are the topsides and I would guess at their being 3/16 inch in the design).

600 lb is alot of weight to have up high in a small boat. It is equivalent to 60 gallons of water, for example, and we try hard to keep our water tanks (which on a 34 foot boat may not be much more than 60 gallons) down low. Another comparison is that the excess weight in the decks and cabin trunk is approx the same as 200 foot of 8mm anchor chain and most would consider it very silly to carry that on deck due to its weight.

Small steel yachts typically have quite a high centre of gravity in any event because of the weight of steel in the hull sides, deck and cabin trunk and that is destructive to the boat's stability. So adding more weight by using greater plate thickness, especially up high, will be further destructive to the boat's stability. What the damage is to the stability I wouldn't like to guess but it would be noticable if it was possible to compare with a correctly built boat.

Personally I would avoid the boat as it is now sounding like it suffers not only from inexperienced amateur adventures in interior layout but in structure too.

[Solosailor]

MidLandOne: I plan to take you advice. Thanks. Also thank you Steve Pope.

[MidLandOne]

An example I could have given that demonstrates the importance of keeping weight out of high up in small steel sail boats in efforts to keep the centre of gravity low is that they are sometimes built with timber (glassed plywood) decks and cabin.

This, of course, introduces other issues such as one then has a hull to deck joint to keep sealed and plywood is open to problems as leaks develop around deck fittings. But there again it provides a more easily maintained deck insofar as repairing cosmetic damage is concerned as paint chips don't rust .

[Solosailor]

Thanks MidLandOne. I will likely still go have a look at this boat but more from a standpoint of curiosity now. It does sound like the owner put a great deal of work into this boat. As far as the dodger is concerned, that would not be hard for me to lower. I have a 200 amp tig welder. But the weight issue is a problem with physics and that boat will never be able to overcome those limitations. It's too bad the builder didn't stick with Denis Ganley's plans. I have a feeling the workmanship is really good. On thing it may have going in it's favour is the fact that it has a 60 hp engine. To me this seems to be a little over kill, but at least it puts some weight low in the boat. That may help compensate for the extra weight in the deck.

I'm a little bummed by this. This was a boat in about the right size that looked like a real work horse. I thought I could get it for a good price. It has what appears to be good equipment on board.

I keep looking.

[kiwiwill]

Hi Guys, I built the Ganley 37 that Daveyw is talking about (Tinfin). Owned it about 8 years and sailed NZ to UK via Japan etc. Great ship - happy to answer any questions
Kiwiwill

[qGanley]

Hi,
Somewhat off topic, but my question is about a Ganley design. Thought this was a good thread to ask if the pics below are of a 30ft Ganley Snowbird design? This hull is advertised to be a Snowbird, but I can't find any online pic of another Snowbird for comparison. The boat was amateur built and I am wondering if the bow entry below the waterline may have been altered by the builder. Viewed straight on (bow2.gif and bow3.gif), entry below the waterline seems somewhat bulbous to my untrained eye. Is this a mistake by the builder or the way the Snowbird is supposed to look?

thanks

[kiwiwill]

Tin Fin was a Ganley 34 origionaly. But I remember the Snowbird on the study prints I bought at the time. Looking at the pics the boat looks like a typical Ganley construction - the way he engineered the 4" plate into the chine to soften it etc. The boat in the pics does not look to have an excessively bulbus bow in my view (as an ex Ganley owner) and my guess is that Ganley designed it that way to give a slightly longer and more effective waterline. This would help reduce pitching which can become a problem in short relatively heavy sailboats. Cheers