Disadvantages of a pilot house design?

[LWatson]

I always envied those with pilot house vessels, UNTIL I saw one take a wave on the side entering a marina. Smashed in the BIG windows and very nearly flooded the boat. It took days to remove all the soft furnishing and wipe and dry the boat out. And this was no flimsy little plastic boat, a robust example from a well respected designer and builder. Consequently I have had a change of heart and will stick with our aft cockpit, low coach roof S and S design.

[petermjdavies]

None depending on your plans. We love the ability to sit inside in bad weather. We love the autopilot so don’t steer much inside. We do have ineffective wipers. Rainx sounds good to me.

Smaller cockpit true. Not an issue for us.

Heat in tropics. Possibly. Ours has opening hatches and vents throughout. We would add fans which many cruisers have as well.

Performance and windage have not been a problem so far.

We have a small pilot house at 33 feet. So moving around inside requires politesse. But love being abke to see out from our lounging area.

[1962SeaScout]

Thanks for the question. I have been sailing and working on a 1980 Dufour CT12000 for about 5 years. The Dufour is named "Sequoia" and is based in Alameda Calif. It was the queen of the boat show at the Cow Palace in 1980. I believe there were less than 50 of the CT's made.
The boat is solidly built. Weighs in at 25 tons net. It is a cruising boat. 7 knots is hull speed. We have been in good and bad weather in the SF Bay and the boat handles very well and is pretty dry topsides in most conditions. Being 45' and a ketch it is not set up to single hand. It is nice to have 4 or more people on board for a sailing crew.

I have used the inside steering station. Sure is nice to get out of the cold wind. If you would like more info on Sequoia you can contact me at
mmuetz@gmail.com

[BoomerTC]

Originally Posted by NedX

The Sirius 35 ds I'm drooling over for an upgrade while I figure out how to wrassle together >$300k and get to Europe seems to have all the positives and none of the negatives. I'll let you know when I finally get there.

Regarding this Dufour posted by River251, the OP https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/197...12000-3725331/ I have two questions for seasoned pilot-housers.

1) Does anyone ever have a problem with not being able to glance aft while sailing in the "doghouse" (can't get use to that term)? Sirius has solved that with 360º visibility inside the deck saloon, but a lot of the older pilothouses don't seem to have that. This Dufour doesn't. I guess if the autopilot is steering, you just go to the campanionway and peek out.

2) The person at the helm looks pretty exposed out there in the cockpit on the Dufour, seeing as how there's no coaming past the binnacle. Those I guess if there's green water coming over your stern quarter, that's when you're in the doghouse, right?

Love the Sirius 40DS! My dreamboat. Just an incredibly well thought out cruiser.

[1962SeaScout]

) Does anyone ever have a problem with not being able to glance aft while sailing in the "doghouse" (can't get use to that term)? Sirius has solved that with 360º visibility inside the deck saloon, but a lot of the older pilothouses don't seem to have that. This Dufour doesn't. I guess if the autopilot is steering, you just go to the campanionway and peek out.


Right. If you want to get a good view aft out of the Dufour someone has to look out topside. When I am at the inside station my spouse keeps a lookout from the top of the companionway. I have to say that 99% of the times we are sailing, or motoring, I am using the outside helm. The inside station is there if you need it but we don't need it very often.


2) The person at the helm looks pretty exposed out there in the cockpit on the Dufour, seeing as how there's no coaming past the binnacle.


Outside is outside. Dress for the occasion. Even so, very little water ever makes it into the Dufour cockpit unless it is really nasty.

[GRIT]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Problems with pilot houses:

*Cant enjoy the first snow fall of sailing season at the helm
*Rain gear/foulies might degrade from lack of use
*No sunbrella dodgers and whatnot to keep your sewing skills up
*Will have a hard time finding warm gloves because you have no idea where you put them
*Sunscreen is all expired and dried up when you go to the beach
*One less ivory back scratcher for your dermatologist or less presents for his kids
*Problems sleeping at the anchorage because you’re still too rested up after your passage
*May have to wash your butt more often because it doesn’t get a free washing sitting outside in puddles and rain
*Local mosquito population will go hungry and suffer
*Local Raymarine or B&G rep may not make their quota and might end up out of a job.

In short, there are numerous problems with pilot houses. None of them yours.

I think this post is spot on. The last two sentences are especially accurate.

Numerous problems, and none of them yours.

Meaning the owners of the pilot houses, of course.

We love it for the warmth, even now, in Ft Pierce Forida, it ain't warm today. If we were out and about, sailing, today we'd need foulies!

Cheers.
Paul.

[PeterBernard]

Brendan - Ive been searching for owners of Taswell AS49's.

I have a steel 50 foot boat designed by Bill Dixon, and commissioned as a one off in 1989, although itndidntnkaunch until 1994. The design is almost identical to yours, albeit we are ketch rigged.

Check us out at https://www.sailingsteelsapphire.com/the-boat - I'd love to chat further and compare boats, as it seems to.me that Dixon sold his design on to Taswell after the initial commission!

[blowin bubbles]

Have had dufour Ct 12000 for 10 years. Sailed about 50000nm and 30 or so countries so far. Let me know if you really want the scope on this boat. It is a great boat!

[rbonilla]

Windage

[Na Mara]

I have honestly been wracking my brain trying to think of any true disadvantages to our boat being a pilothouse and I am struggling.

A true pilothouse with interior helm is a joy. The way you should think of them is as a boat with two cockpits: one where you are exposed to the elements and can commune with nature, and another where you hide out when you've had enough of all that communing crap.

When the sun is pelting down trying to roast you alive you hide out in the pilot house with all the windows and hatches open and the fans whirling all nice and cool.

When the rain is lashing down you hide out in the pilothouse with all the hatches closed and just the small side windows cracked for ventilation.

When its bitterly cold and you're charging into the wind you hide out in the pilothouse with the heater on.

When you're running before a storm with series drogue set and waves are crashing past, and sometimes into, your stern, you are all tucked up in that pilothouse with a cuppa in one hand and your other on that hydraulic steering, with the storm hatch board in, behind all that armoured double glazing pitying the poor souls who are out there in that maelstorm.

And then when you are at anchor on a beautiful cold crisp autumn morning, you are sitting at the deck saloon table with a cuppa and a bacon roll in front of you sharing the moment with your better half all snug and warm.

Basically, I get to choose at every point in a sail and at anchor whether I want to be outside at one with the elements or tucked up inside at one with my creature comforts. Not only do I get to choose that, but so do all the crew, including those prone to seasickness while below.

Sure some pilothouses sail like dogs, have looks only a mother could love and are vulnerable to wave strikes. But many, like mine (see photo), don't have any of those foibles.

The one negative they truly do have by necessity is that the accommodation is not all on one level. This does mean accommodations that are split up a bit (on our boat we have two smaller saloons rather than one big one for instance) and it does mean more steps to navigate once below. There are pros and cons to accommodation that is more divided up (pros: greater privacy, easier to distribute crew about the boat so that they aren't in the way, raised saloon and interior helm with a view etc, cons: less sociable when entertaining large groups, visually smaller interior, etc), but the steps are simply an undesirable consequence of having a pilot house. They are a hazard at sea, and they are a pain in harbour. Its the price you genuinely pay for everything I said above.

However, a bonus that is not often recognised is that having a pilot house considerably increases the usable volume of a sail boat and allows for optimal weight centralisation. Our pilothouse is at the point of maximum beam over the aft end of the keel and under it is the engine bay with 85hp Yanmar diesel, 500l of water tanks, 400Ah of batteries, the heating system, the 40l hot water tank, the water maker, all the pumps, the battery chargers and inverters and even a cosy single berth cabin with what has to be the worlds best ever sea berth.

Basically, for longterm serious cruising a true pilothouse is hard to beat.

[NedX]

Originally Posted by Na Mara

I have honestly been wracking my brain trying to think of any true disadvantages to our boat being a pilothouse and I am struggling.

A true pilothouse with interior helm is a joy. The way you should think of them is as a boat with two cockpits: one where you are exposed to the elements and can commune with nature, and another where you hide out when you've had enough of all that communing crap.

When the sun is pelting down trying to roast you alive you hide out in the pilot house with all the windows and hatches open and the fans whirling all nice and cool.

When the rain is lashing down you hide out in the pilothouse with all the hatches closed and just the small side windows cracked for ventilation.

When its bitterly cold and you're charging into the wind you hide out in the pilothouse with the heater on.

When you're running before a storm with series drogue set and waves are crashing past, and sometimes into, your stern, you are all tucked up in that pilothouse with a cuppa in one hand and your other on that hydraulic steering, with the storm hatch board in, behind all that armoured double glazing pitying the poor souls who are out there in that maelstorm.

And then when you are at anchor on a beautiful cold crisp autumn morning, you are sitting at the deck saloon table with a cuppa and a bacon roll in front of you sharing the moment with your better half all snug and warm.

Basically, I get to choose at every point in a sail and at anchor whether I want to be outside at one with the elements or tucked up inside at one with my creature comforts. Not only do I get to choose that, but so do all the crew, including those prone to seasickness while below.

Sure some pilothouses sail like dogs, have looks only a mother could love and are vulnerable to wave strikes. But many, like mine (see photo), don't have any of those foibles.

The one negative they truly do have by necessity is that the accommodation is not all on one level. This does mean accommodations that are split up a bit (on our boat we have two smaller saloons rather than one big one for instance) and it does mean more steps to navigate once below. There are pros and cons to accommodation that is more divided up (pros: greater privacy, easier to distribute crew about the boat so that they aren't in the way, raised saloon and interior helm with a view etc, cons: less sociable when entertaining large groups, visually smaller interior, etc), but the steps are simply an undesirable consequence of having a pilot house. They are a hazard at sea, and they are a pain in harbour. Its the price you genuinely pay for everything I said above.

However, a bonus that is not often recognised is that having a pilot house considerably increases the usable volume of a sail boat and allows for optimal weight centralisation. Our pilothouse is at the point of maximum beam over the aft end of the keel and under it is the engine bay with 85hp Yanmar diesel, 500l of water tanks, 400Ah of batteries, the heating system, the 40l hot water tank, the water maker, all the pumps, the battery chargers and inverters and even a cosy single berth cabin with what has to be the worlds best ever sea berth.

Basically, for longterm serious cruising a true pilothouse is hard to beat.

Thanks for all this useful information. What make of boat is yours?

[Na Mara]

Hi Nedx

She is a Regina 43. By my reckoning they are the best pilothouse yachts if you want something that actually sails well. They are semi-custom so the interiors are all individualised. Some have the interior helm, some don't and instead have an interior conning station, but like the nauticats, they can all be built with an internal helm. The range goes from 35ft to 49ft. The more traditional models, like the 38, 43 and 49 are galley down. The newer models like the 35, 40 and 45 are galley up. These are quality boats and cost accordingly, but there are a few on the secondhand market for not too much wedge. We bought ours from 1996 for about 200k euros two years ago.

If you don't mind greater exposure in the cockpit and want a bit more volume for length, then the more modern nauticats, like the 37 and 42 are also good pilothouse sailboats. They aren't quite as good sailboats as Reginas, and the high cockpits force serious compromises in boom height and cockpit safety, but they ain't bad and the interior volume is huge.

If you are looking for something a bit more modern, with all the benefits and compromises that brings, then Sirius are the way to go. Great sailing boats for coastal cruising with galley up and huge volume for length. Sail really well! Not sure I'd want to take them transoceanic due to the very large off-centre companionways, massive deep aft cockpits, the lack of self draining lockers, and the sharper bilges, but I am sure that people do use them that way with great success.

[NedX]

Originally Posted by Na Mara

Hi Nedx

She is a Regina 43. By my reckoning they are the best pilothouse yachts if you want something that actually sails well. They are semi-custom so the interiors are all individualised. Some have the interior helm, some don't and instead have an interior conning station, but like the nauticats, they can all be built with an internal helm. The range goes from 35ft to 49ft. The more traditional models, like the 38, 43 and 49 are galley down. The newer models like the 35, 40 and 45 are galley up. These are quality boats and cost accordingly, but there are a few on the secondhand market for not too much wedge. We bought ours from 1996 for about 200k euros two years ago.

If you don't mind greater exposure in the cockpit and want a bit more volume for length, then the more modern nauticats, like the 37 and 42 are also good pilothouse sailboats. They aren't quite as good sailboats as Reginas, and the high cockpits force serious compromises in boom height and cockpit safety, but they ain't bad and the interior volume is huge.

If you are looking for something a bit more modern, with all the benefits and compromises that brings, then Sirius are the way to go. Great sailing boats for coastal cruising with galley up and huge volume for length. Sail really well! Not sure I'd want to take them transoceanic due to the very large off-centre companionways, massive deep aft cockpits, the lack of self draining lockers, and the sharper bilges, but I am sure that people do use them that way with great success.

Thanks! Just looked at a 43 on Yachtworld. Nice layout on this one. Cockpit looks great. 43 might be a bit more boat than I want to handle as I do a lot of singlehanded sailing (see that thread about older people handling bigger sails) but it sure looks like a sweet vessel. I wish you much happiness on yours.

[Na Mara]

Keep an eye out for the 38 (galley down, separate shower, master aft cabin) or the 35 (galley up, master cabin forward). If I was single handing I'd go for the 35. Beautiful boat and the perfect size (35 ft 6.5 metric ton) for a bachelor or cruising couple.

Regina Yachts- The Regina 35

[Discovery 15797]

In case anyone questions the seaworthiness of a pilothouse here is a FB post of an 83 year old man who just completed a 4.5+ year single-handed circumnavigation in a US Yacht 42 (successor to the Cooper 416).

Congrats to Captain Jim McCarthy!