Disadvantages of a pilot house design?

[Cheechako]

The main disadvantage to me is that when want to sail out in the aft cockpit, you cant see. I realized how much of a PITA this is when I sailed one. Constantly having to stand up and look around. Also, running some lines aft/ or using them I guess is a bit more of a problem and not so convenient. Everything's a compromise.

[TheAsylum]

I own a 1980 dufour 12000ct hull number 30. I have done a lot updating of equipment including a new bridged traveler by garhauer. electric furler. reconfigured galley, a/c install, new engine and transmission (vetus). holding tank conversion to roto molded plastic. refrigeration system with a holding plate cascade design. lots of little things to numerous to mention right now.

Here is a link to see my boat photos, There are also copies of the original sales brochure and a article on the 12000ct.

I always enjoy talking boats, so if ever so inclined please feel free to contact me.

I am not trying to sell my boat.

Dohertymarine@aol.com

[TheSullinator]

Originally Posted by foojin

There are lovely pilothouses. We've been aboard many that are deservedly loved by their owners. They are a dream to cruise in unpleasant conditions. The natural light and view outside are wonderful.

They are not for us. We are liveaboards. They do not suit the way we use space as we spend most of our time living, not sailing.

Pilothouses, by practical need, are broken into several compartments. We like one large salon where 6-8 people can sit, where a person in the galley is part of the conversation, where folks can get up easily to use the loo or mix a drink.

We have looked at many pilothouses when we have been in the boat market. We've never been aboard one that seemed suitable for a family get-together.

As well, to us, where we live, sailing is an outdoor activity.

Everybody is different. That's why there are different designs.

I am moving towards the purchase of a PH as a live aboard. I read your post and it intrigued me. On our live aboard will be my wife and I, 17 and 13 year old sons. We generally hang together in our large on land home.

Can you share with me more about your preferences of the boat you live on? We will spend most of our time living VS sailing as you noted for yourself.

Thanks!

[TheSullinator]

Originally Posted by Discovery 15797

I've had a pilothouse for the past 22 years. I never thought it would be the boat I would go cruising in...but after 20 years in the Pacific Northwest with the boat, a complete refit, and gallons of sweat and blood she is as much a part of me as my own hand. She is a safe and comfortable cruiser.

WRT windage...poppycock. Many of the new Bene's and Hanse's have raised salon decks that have as much if not more windage than my Cooper.

WRT visibility...poppycock. The cockpit sole on a pilothouse is raised so visibility over the doghouse is not affected. IMHO Nauticats and Cabo Rico PH's are motorsailers; not pilothouse sailboats. So, this statement doesn't apply to motorsailers with big boxy doghouses. But, since most of these boats are listed as PH also...they get lumped into PH discussions.

WRT cooling in hotter climates...poppycock. All uncovered boats in warmer climates (I'm in Hawaii now) will get toasty warm...especially boats that are some color other than white. And forget teak decks..they get hot and act as an insulator to keep the heat inside. There is a reason you see long-term cruising boats in the tropics covered with yards of Sunbrella...newer cruisers...not so much, but they learn very soon.

Each window in my doghouse is tinted and has a 90% Phifertex covering. It allows light in during the day, but blocks 90% of the sun's rays. I have a canvas tent over the doghouse as well as over the foredeck and a hard dodger with canvas bimini in the cockpit. The canvas over the foredeck and doghouse allow the hatches to stay open during rain. Ventilation and shade is critically important to keeping the inside of any sailboat cool in the tropics.

In the cockpit I use 75% Phifertex for side curtains. The 75% allows better air flow than the 90%, but still keeps the cockpit from direct sunlight.

Most boats with inside steering have hydraulic steering. The maintenance is bleeding the pumps at different levels (which could be listed as a downside). But, my maintenance has consisted for pump rebuilds every 20 years (I rebuilt the pumps when I bought the boat, and rebuilt before heading off to HI), checking the hydraulic fluid levels once a month.

WRT windshield wipers....that is definitely "old school" tech....Rain X works wonders. I removed the wipers from my forward looking windows and never installed them on my hard dodger windows. Think about it...people have large soft dodgers with "plastic" windows...how do they see forward in a storm or heavy rain? Rain X has always sufficed for me.

Now for the downside...

As Rohan wrote, you will be doing most of your steering from the outside steering station. Once you add an autopilot you will not be doing much steering at all; especially below deck. In the PNW when there was no wind and lots of rain (which is a common occurrence) I would go below, make some hot chocolate, keep watch (both visually and electronically) and let the AP steer the course. While sailing...you'll likely be in the cockpit (albeit short trips below) to stand watch, trim sails, be one with nature, etc.

Simple day sails with friends or beer can races are the obvious exceptions...but when cruising...once the boat is out of the marina the AP goes on, and I use my windvane around the islands. On long passages the hours spent at the helm can be counted on one hand with 3 fingers missing.

(BTW...I'm working on a long overdue blog post detailing why I converted my inside steering station to a navigation console next to my chart table.)

Another downside of pilothouses is a smallish cockpit. On my boat...4 people in the cockpit is 1 or 2 too many while sailing. At anchor....4 or 6 is comfortable...but there is no social distancing going on. Pilothouses are typically designed for maximum space below deck; which makes pilothouses excellent liveaboards or hanging on the hook for a few months.

Another downside is aesthetics and the tired old myths repeated over and over. Many people either like 'em or hate 'em based on aesthetics alone. Some people regurgitate myths they've heard (similar to the "blue-water" boat myths).

My boat is not really pretty. She is also not a dock queen. She's got some scars, but she is strong, safe, and comfortable....and I would say the Dufour PH is also a capable boat. Buy a boat that suits your needs and your desired comfort level...if you cruise/liveaboard...you'll spend a lot of time on her.

Thank you for your post.

I am looking to purchase a liveaboard, a PH seems to be my preference. I live in the Tacoma area and hope to find a slip in Tacoma.

I am new to boating, not new to tackling new challenges. I’m thinking a 40’-60’ boat.

If you are inclined, do you have thoughts for me? Suggestions?

Thanks so much!

[DIJ]

New to sailing and considering up to 60ft?
Its good you like a challenge, but may be you have sorted suitable crew.


Though I am jealous you can consider a 60footer!

[DIJ]

Sorry I should have said new to boating not sailing

[foojin]

Originally Posted by TheSullinator

I am moving towards the purchase of a PH as a live aboard. I read your post and it intrigued me. On our live aboard will be my wife and I, 17 and 13 year old sons. We generally hang together in our large on land home.

Can you share with me more about your preferences of the boat you live on? We will spend most of our time living VS sailing as you noted for yourself.

Thanks!

If you are considering a 60-foot vessel it's likely that none of my issues will have any relevance at all.

In the PH boats we looked at, in the low 40s, just about all the daytime living space was in the PH, and we found them cramped for living and entertaining as liveaboards. I doubt you would have such a concern in a 50 to 60-foot boat, but everyone is different.