Ditching the diesel inboard engine

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Did I mention my outboard is (crank) pull start only!

Also it has no alternator.

I use solar only to power all my systems which includes several computers. (when I turn them on that is) I still use paper charts and visual clues mostly here and the OpenCPN when I get in close to anchor in good but sometimes shallow spots.

Some of these things I do on my boat goes back to the minimalist thing. I don't want a starter battery etc to deal with.

Even when I was doing the remote control plane thing back in the 90's, I refused to get an electric starter for the engines.

If you know engines, you'll know when the thing will start and when it won't without cranking yourself to death.

Of course. I would have been surprised if you had an electric start outboard. Every outboard of 40HP or less that I have ever owned was rope start. But we aren't talking about you or your outboard. You know your outboard. This guy has a diesel and first of all he does not know his diesel at all. Second, he does not know deisels in general, either. He will be doing a lot of cranking, and it is simple to hook up a starter and simple even to replace a bad one. Yeah he could probably do this without a starter. However it will probably be a lot more difficult for HIM, emphasis on "not you", and take a lot less time, and he is less likely to give up when the first little issue comes up.

Of course, if he does give up or fail, that validates your desperately held position, doesn't it? Hey, no skin off my nose. I'm just trying to help the guy. And now I have done all I can do, short of finding him and doing everything myself. But if I did that, first thing I would do is get that starter engaging and turning. That would make the rest of it much easier.

[JPA Cate]

Ah, yes. Don't want to rain on someone's parade, but if you're going outside (rather than through canals) to the Med, an outboard is just not the best idea, whereas the OP has a good diesel inboard engine just waiting to be used. He's putting his choices off to $$; but it isn't just that: an o/b is not practical for world cruising, but he doesn't want to acknowledge that. It is, after all, his life, and those who crew for him.



Ann

[Fore and Aft]

Ann your bound to get a few replies telling you an outboard is fine for world cruising so I will beat them to it. This couple in the link below have just spent 140 days in Patagonia and I would love to hear an honest opinion from them about removing their Yanmar diesel engine and replacing it with an outboard......They have had way more dramas with the outboard than I could imagine if they had kept the diesel inboard.
It sounds like Manateeman has his Dugongs in a knot over a free spirit of the world. Surely one of his Dugongs is going to tell him to stop being a downer and ruining the vibe.
Cheers
https://sailingdawntreader.com/2021/...gonia-day-140/
https://sailingdawntreader.com/2015/...-new-outboard/

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

Of course. I would have been surprised if you had an electric start outboard. Every outboard of 40HP or less that I have ever owned was rope start. But we aren't talking about you or your outboard. You know your outboard. This guy has a diesel and first of all he does not know his diesel at all. Second, he does not know deisels in general, either. He will be doing a lot of cranking, and it is simple to hook up a starter and simple even to replace a bad one. Yeah he could probably do this without a starter. However it will probably be a lot more difficult for HIM, emphasis on "not you", and take a lot less time, and he is less likely to give up when the first little issue comes up.

Of course, if he does give up or fail, that validates your desperately held position, doesn't it? Hey, no skin off my nose. I'm just trying to help the guy. And now I have done all I can do, short of finding him and doing everything myself. But if I did that, first thing I would do is get that starter engaging and turning. That would make the rest of it much easier.

It's not a desperately held position.

Maybe since he has a new outboard that could be an option!..... although I do worry about that bracket he has. I'm on the same outboard after 10 years of use but second bracket.

My point simply is that outboards work for some and it's not worth the time or expense of getting an old worn out diesel running again.

Having learned sailing without an engine is extremely important also if taking the outboard route. You won't tend to be so dependent on an engine that way.

The OP isn't working and isn't a mech so him getting that diesel going again seems like a stretch

The OP should probably take a lesson from Sean D' and get a sculling oar. Sean made it most of the way around the world without a diesel or an outboard for that matter. But he did build his own autopilot and powered it with an old windshield wiper motor. (and I believe parts from a tiller pilot plus maybe his own software.

https://towndock.net/shippingnews/se...-and-alexandra

Looks like Robin Lee Graham is another one that made it 3/4 the way around the world with an outboard only for his auxiliary power!

Photo is of him leaving Darwin.

https://flatheadbeacon.com/2021/03/11/sailor-at-home/

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by thomm225

It's not a desperately held position.

Maybe since he has a new outboard that could be an option!..... although I do worry about that bracket he has. I'm on the same outboard after 10 years of use but second bracket.

My point simply is that outboards work for some and it's not worth the time or expense of getting an old worn out diesel running again.

Having learned sailing without an engine is extremely important also if taking the outboard route. You won't tend to be so dependent on an engine that way.

The OP isn't working and isn't a mech so him getting that diesel going again seems like a stretch

The OP should probably take a lesson from Sean D' and get a sculling oar. Sean made it most of the way around the world without a diesel or an outboard for that matter. But he did build his own autopilot and powered it with an old windshield wiper motor. (and I believe parts from a tiller pilot plus maybe his own software.

https://towndock.net/shippingnews/se...-and-alexandra

Looks like Robin Lee Graham is another one that made it 3/4 the way around the world with an outboard only for his auxiliary power!

Photo is of him leaving Darwin.

https://flatheadbeacon.com/2021/03/11/sailor-at-home/

If you read his posts I think he has sculling down pat..
Also a 4hp is only going to work in perfect conditions and short runs at maybe 2knots plus help from tides.. its a heavy steel boat not a plastic fantastic.
The diesel is simple old style and if he can get it going great, if not he can dump it anytime but it is worth the try.

[MicHughV]

I can give some real life experiences as I sailed a 38' steel boat without an engine.

Trying to leave or enter an inlet against a contrary tide or wind conditions, is a merciless endeavor, tacking for hours only to gain 50 yards.

I can recall countless times I had to " heave to" outside an inlet to await tides or better wind conditions. It was never fun. Not in the slightest.

Short tacking up a narrow channel is also merciless work and odds are you will run aground, not once, but several times. After the the 10th time, kedging your anchor out to pull yourself of will wear thin.

Sailing without an engine leaves you entirely at the mercy of the weather and tides.

I don't care what anyone says here, but strapping an outboard to your transom, is not the way to fly. Yes, Robin Lee Graham did it, as have others, mostly in smaller boats...but consider this to be an exception to the rule.

I'm with Boatman here, fix the diesel or at least give it a go.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by boatman61

If you read his posts I think he has sculling down pat..
Also a 4hp is only going to work in perfect conditions and short runs at maybe 2knots plus help from tides.. its a heavy steel boat not a plastic fantastic.
The diesel is simple old style and if he can get it going great, if not he can dump it anytime but it is worth the try.

I'm thinking now with the OP's experiences that he will probably end up sculling quite a bit regardless which engine he uses.

I don't believe he has the background to keep an old engine running consistently and as you mentioned that steel boat must weigh/displace quite a bit for a small outboard.

Some of us are tech/nerd/mech's combined and also have lots of sailing/boating experience so that sometimes makes it hard to advise others as to their right path.

Many times I for example just use my outboard to get out of and into my slip. The rest is sailing even to anchor and to leave anchor. So far I have never backed down on an anchor to set.

So the OP has some interesting decisions to make.

[carstendenmark]

OP didn't reply lately to our now 10-page nonsense, some which is way off topic.

Maybe he went out to make some bucks for a fuel filter and some copper cable for his Bukh

[MicHughV]

true, but we had a good gab.....

[carstendenmark]

Oh, OP, when you're out, don't forget a new impeller and gaskets for the water pump, before startup.

You don't want old rubber pieces into your engine cooling system and have BIG problems !

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by carstendenmark

Oh, OP, when you're out, don't forget a new impeller and gaskets for the water pump, before startup.

You don't want old rubber pieces into your engine cooling system and have BIG problems !

So true. The old one could be several years old. Should be replaced annually even if the engine is not used. They are cheap.

An excellent mod is installing a strainer at the pump output to capture those bits of rubber.

A spare impeller is one of the most important engine spares to carry. Right up there with fuel filters and vee belts.

Anyway, the OP is gonna do what he is gonna do. I am butting out now. <unsubscribe>

[fred4936]

I understand your situation. The boat we acquired 2 years ago has a diesel, the first one I ever owned. I know gas engines well, except when it comes to outboards. Suffice to say I can rebuild a 4 barrel automotive carb in my sleep, but smaller engines I have issues with. The Yanmar experience has been a learning experience, and so far I have manged to learn what I need to as I go. Having diesel mechanics on board is not possible while underway, so that is not a practical route anyway. I had a 26 ft. sailboat with an outboard on the back. In any kind of sea the prop was moving air and not water, so I would not recommend that if you need the outboard offshore. I think if you put your mind to it you can get your diesel running without spending much. If it turns over and has compression, that hard part is already done. Look at very basic wiring diagrams, one system at a time. The starter needs a larger wire from the battery, and a smaller wire to the switch. That is all it needs to start. Break it all down to individual systems, conquer one at a time.

[mowerandy]

Wow - long thread! Apologies for not reading past page three so far.
When a diesel turns, has some compression but hasnt run in a while, my first recourse is usually to give it a blast of ether (comes in a spray can under many different names - the local one here in Oz is called "start ya bastard"). If the motor has any compression and can breath, then it should run for a few cycles on a short spray. If it doesnt then the exhaust may be blocked (common in neglected raw water cooled engines). Check the exhaust elbow first, but consider that they can block inside the head too (friends Yanmar 20 would start then die when the exhaust pressure built up due to head blockage).
As others have said, select neutral and give it some throttle before trying with ether. With luck it will continue to run on its own fuel. If not then bleed at the injectors by disconnecting the high pressure lines and cranking until you see little squirts of fuel from both. Reconnect, shot of ether, half to full throttle and crank away. Use the deco lever to kill it if it runs away for any reason...
Good luck

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by mowerandy

Wow - long thread! Apologies for not reading past page three so far.
When a diesel turns, has some compression but hasnt run in a while, my first recourse is usually to give it a blast of ether (comes in a spray can under many different names - the local one here in Oz is called "start ya bastard"). If the motor has any compression and can breath, then it should run for a few cycles on a short spray. If it doesnt then the exhaust may be blocked (common in neglected raw water cooled engines). Check the exhaust elbow first, but consider that they can block inside the head too (friends Yanmar 20 would start then die when the exhaust pressure built up due to head blockage).
As others have said, select neutral and give it some throttle before trying with ether. With luck it will continue to run on its own fuel. If not then bleed at the injectors by disconnecting the high pressure lines and cranking until you see little squirts of fuel from both. Reconnect, shot of ether, half to full throttle and crank away. Use the deco lever to kill it if it runs away for any reason...
Good luck

If it has glow plugs to assist with cold start do not use any type of starting fluid a short spurt of wd40 is all you should use

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by stormalong

A big part of having an inboard vs outboard is to be able to make headway to weather. Any seaway and the outboard prop will be out of the water a lot. The outboard, just like an inboard will not be able to make as much headway going to weather. That 4 knots in flat water may end up being 2.

Also, what is the stress on an outboard when the prop comes out of the water, the engine accelerates and then get slammed back into the water? That has to affect reliability and engine life.

I’m a sailor on a sailboat, if I have to go to weather I’m sailing.

If there is no wind and leftover slop from a blow that is the only instance I won’t be able to make headway for significant periods. Since my OB is in a motorwell the prop coming out of the water is a very occasional problem in very specific conditions.

When I upgrade to a bigger boat I intend to pick one I can install a motorwell in.