Ditching the diesel inboard engine

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

true that you can reduce your gph burn rate by slowing down. However in doing that, you make your voyage take longer. Less gallons per hour for more hours might not decrease total fuel consumed for the voyage as much as you think.



An outboard is certainly usable for a smallish boat. A diesel is clearly better. If the diesel is already installed then it makes a n awful lot of sense to try to start it than to just get rid of it, even if there is already an outboard.



In fact, with the diesel in good running condition, it doesn't hurt a thing to still keep the outboard, as well, if you have a safe way to store the gasoline and you replace it periodically with fresh.

In flat water lower speed increases miles per gallon regardless of fuel. For most boats with ICE 25-40’ the most fuel efficient speed is about 3kt or so. Since ICEs use a certain amount of fuel just to idle at some point going slower is less efficient.

For electric propulsion the most efficient speed is even lower.

[zeitgeist]

I was looking at Seawind 1270 catamarans, which have twin outboard engines. I want to do extensive cruising of the Pacific, and one thought was the outboards seem much more exposed for theft. An inboard diesel is bolted down inside and practically impossible to remove without the right equipment, but I feel an outboard can be easily yoinked with minimal effort.

[Greatest Lakes]

There are many posts about how to make an outboard seem unappealing for theft. Locking methods, removal of labels, paint, giving it a label from a lousy manufacturer. In my experience, thieves are not very bright and will steal anything they think they can get away with. They don't care about being destructive, even willing to damage the item they want to steal. Inboard engines are much more challenging for them. Stainless bar companionway locks and things are often seen in less secure ports as well.

[Hermia II]

Small inboard diesels, you will never regret it.

[Caminantes]

Hey! For some reason i ignore, notifications for this thread couldnt find their way to my mail, but here i m this morning, reading all your wonderful ramblings and replies.

First of all, thank you for the very detailed explanation on how to start the diesel. Thank you for the small debate and very good reasons for both having a diesel, an outboard and also no motor at all. Gracias para el que escribió en castellano. Also made for a pleasant read the life stories of some of you guys, your adventures and missadventures, your experiments, and your some times hard learned leasons.

Here a little update: after a grueling battle with my own ignorance, i managed to not only put together some basic diesel motor knowledge, but also to actually start the bukh motor! I realized it was the elctrics, what scared me the most.

The battle, or better said, the succesive battles, where more or less in this order:

After removing the many bits of rusted cables, cleaning the oil, and gaining access to the actual motor that was hiding behind the mess, i followed the cooper tubing to the tank, akwardly located right behind the rudder post, trapped between the cockpit coamings and the mirror of the boat.

The tubbing was leaking at various spots, and being the tank half full, i disengaged the tubing from the cock to find that the pipes and the cock where completely stuffed with a nasty mix of rust, diesel sleim and what not.

After removing the tubing, it took me a full day to disengage the tank. The inside of the tank was not better, adding to the mess, a few diesel additive cups that where missed inside by preivious owners.

After a deep inspection and clean of the tank, i decided to build a new one using some stainless scrap i collected, and locate it conveniently next to the motor, near the companionway door. A little higher than the motor, to keep gravity feeding it in all but the worst sea conditions. My logic being, that a tank i have access i can actually inspect and clean more often, and a tank near the motor, means less pipes length and chances for leaks to develope.

Meanwhile, with a plastic container as a temporary tank, i filtered some of the old diesel fuel (4 or 5 years old, stored in metal cans by the previous owner) and after changing the fuel filter, i purged the diesel circuit of air, as suggested by some of you.

The motor oil filter was changed, and so was the motor oil. I also added oil to the gearbox, who was neglected to the point of not having oil at all. After checking that the kevel remains constant and no leaks where to be found, i concluded the access to the gearbox was so difficult, that the previous owner acted as if it was not existing.

With new oil and filters, and the air purged from the diesel circuit (yes, it was messy until i realized the convinience of having some rags and a bucketnear me when doing that), it took a few tries with the crank to get the motor running. The compression lever in this model of Bukh works horizontally, which makes it even more awckward to operate, but i like the suggested idea of adding a wrench, and im working on it, since i really like starting the motor by cranking it.

A second hand shop provided me of an arrange of v-belts on the cheap, to replace and keep spares for the original belt who was already giving up showing all it internal fibers, half of the cut already.

The raw water intake is free of growth, and water flows free to the vetus water filter. What was not that good, was the o-ring of the filter, who was dried and cracked in places, and let more water flow to my bilges than to the motor. After checking the prices online for a new o-ring and having almost a heart attack, i built a new o-ring from some rubber stuff and it works just fine.

Gears work smooth, too. I relocated the commands of the motor since i rebuilt the cockpit. They are now next to the new watertight companionway door.

The cockpit rebuilt was a proyect in itself, and consisted basically on cutting the floor of the bathtube to raise it to seat level, extending at the same time the tubes of the small underwater draining pipes (scupers?).

This modification gave me full access to the motor inside the boat. It also generated a more comfortable cockpit (for me, i like sitting indian style while piloting, and now the cockpit is a nice platform in which to lay and watch the stars at night). And a tiny cockpit well, that will take less water in case a wave breaks on it.

I also added 4 extra scuppers at deck level (cockpit sits are below deck level, but well over the water line) to releave any water we can take.

During the cockpit modifications i also built two new hatches both port and starboard of the rudder. They provide good dayliht in the now open space bellow the cockpit, effectively making storage and working in the motor much more of a joy. They also provide very good crossed ventilation at port.

The cockpit modification was complemented with the build of a hard dodger that is integrated with the new watertight companionway door. This hard dodger functions as a mini pilot house, much like the one in Ming Ming from Roger Taylor.

By relocating the diesel tank, i also gained access to the mirror from inside the boat, which in turn allowed me to install a very nice windpilot pacific windvane i ve got as a present some years ago.

The old interior layout made a PITA to access the hull or work on the motor, and made for a very good way of trapping humidity between the styropor isolation and the roof of the cabin. As a result, lots of rust creeped there, many holes helped gather even more water, and the electric instalation rusted and created some very interesting short cicuits that lead to partial burning of the styropor at parts. All that, behind the nice looking wood lining that hide the mess for decades. A nice waterfall formed in one of the cabin lights when it rained.

Stripping the boat while living on board was not easy, but it was super neccesary. After all, how in the world could i weld shut all those tiny holes in the cabin roof without striping the cabin first?

Forward some weeks, and the cabin was watertight like never before, the sliding hatch replaced by the new door and dodger. The rust was chipped away, and the metal was painted with discarded, expired cans of perfectly serviceable yacth paint, from a nearby boatyard (they can use the "expired" paint due to liability issues regarding warranties for their works, so they are forced to pay for its disposal).

The new isolation consist of raw wool from 40 sheeps, sandwiched between the cabin roof and walls (a.k.a. the hull) and some discarded fisherman nets. The wool is also discarded or sold by a simbolic price by the farners in the area, who profit on the meat, but find no buyers for the wool.

Its experimental, but so far, so good.

A woodstove was built, but before instalation, a gift fell from the sky: the neighbour from the boat next to me asked me to help him install his new woodstove, and wanted to get rid of the old one. Well, you can imagine how after a bit of cleaning, the old one was happily installed on my boat. Very happy with that one!

In the time here, i made some good contacts and friends in boatyards, marinas, and with other more experienced sailors who are now teaching me very valuable stuff. I also gained access to some njce workshops where i m building some of the stuff for the boat, like a better motor bracket, for instance.

All other jobs, where conducted while on the water. In the comming weeks i plan to go out of the water to replace a o-ring in the water cooled stuffing box, because there is a leak i can really fix while on the water. I will take the change to check and repair zinks, clean and paint the underwater parts of the boat, and plug from the outside the now shuted sea toilet and the old kitchen seacocks.

I just wanted to thank everyone who answered to this thread. I spent the morning reading you and watching your videos.

Notice that i kept the outboard, as i find redundance a good politic when dealing with boats. The arguments for a good diesel are as good as the arguments for a nice small outboard. The same for the sculling oars. They all have their place in my boat.

Three different anchors are now rigged on board for the same reason of redundancy and also for different situations. And also because they are what i found. They are not the ideal anchors, but the ones that i found.

A biguish CQR with fat chain rod hanging from the bow. A smalish bruce with all anchor rode hanging from the stern. And a smalish Danforth with chain and rope rode, also from the stern.

For a lunch break or waiting a tide in the muddy Watt the Danforth is easy to set and retrieve singlehanded from the cockpit. For more stormy weather, overnight, overcasted, the CQR gives me more peace of mind.

Two hammock rigged port and starboard amidships offer good rest. At least for me, i m so used to hammocks and know many different ways of rigging them to adapt to the situations. For the sailboat they need a line "amidships" to prevent them from swinging too much while on a seaway. When not in use, they are great for storing small items to keep them handy.

The last modification i made was the cabin floor. I had the issue that being too tall, the "standing room" was more like crunching room. Not nice. So i decided to build a new floor at about waterline height. Sure, now i have "only" sitting room. But i sit straight. And i have a good plattform to do some stretching, play music, cook, read and sleep as i please.

And best, the area bellow the cabin floor (made with discarded pallets wood) offers ample storage for all my tools, instruments, spares, water, fuel, food and bits of sails, clothes, etc. All that, well amidships, near the center of the boat, as low as possible. Of course some of the bilges are left very easy to access to check for leaks and to operate the badass manual bilge pump i installed. So far, everything is bone dry, except for the small leak in the shaft that lets some small amount of water enter the rear compartiment of the bilge.

The experience of years traveling and living on a budget made me a quite self sufficient person, and at the same time, very much aware on how dependant we are from each other.

This forum, as well as the community of sailors i found where i go, made my transition from "traveler" to "sea traveler" very smooth.

The more i sail, and the more i read and learn, the more i notice how little i know! How much is out there to learn! And how many good people are out there to share they knowledge!

Thank you all! I will contact some of you regarding the offers to learn stuff.

Effectively, spanish is my mother tongue, but i use it not that often now a days. Here english is the norm, and i m happy to speak french and german with you guys. Languages are like portals to new worlds. I simply love exploring so am very humbled and thankful for your dedicated answers in this forum.

All the best,
Matias

[Caminantes]

I forgot to mention that the long gas conection, with the bottle somewhere in the cockpit locker, and the lengthy cooper pipe, leaked at least in one point. Very dangerous indeed.

Luckily i never used that kitchen, and replaced the whole instalation with a simple, home made built, single gas gimbaled stove that uses a small gas bottle attached directly to the burner.

Since i had many of those bottles i cooked on that gas this year. But given the dangers implied in storing gas on board, and the difficulty and expense of finding places to refill the little gas bottle, i m working on two alternatives.

I built a even smaller gimballed alcohol stove which can run on alcohol (i get cheap alcohol in The Neatherlands). So next trip there i m getting some good 30 liters. That provides good storable fuel without the safety concers and inconveniences of gas. It worked well on my long bicycle and walking journeys. It should do the trick sailing.

And i have now the wood stove, which i can also run on diesel, making for a convenient heat and cooking source in winter over here.

Building woodstoves and stoves in general is a hobby of mine since many years. The warmth is recomforting while living mostly outdoors, and even more in the coldish latitudes im sailing these days.

[Caminantes]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

You don’t want to work...you know...like... actually have a job.
You know, hard work ...like you would find in boatyards where you could learn how to fix your diesel and have money to pay for parts.
You want to live a life of leisure without a job. You make that very, very clear.
We guess you are going to take this steel boat into waters where you have been advised, sail alone might not keep you from being wrecked...and you are ok with this...correct?
Your steel boat , with no money for maintenance ,will most likely become a wreck ...a hazard to navigation...for which others will have to work or pay taxes to remove it.
Some might approve of your lifestyle. Some would say it’s immature and narcissistic. What do you think are the responsibilities of other people toward you? Let’s say you actually get into the ocean. What survival chances do you think you have? If things go wrong...do you think it’s only about you?
You see... professional mariners are legally obligated to save your life.
They must risk their life saving you .
So when you set forth on what some may consider a “manifestly unsafe voyage”
that decision has consequences beyond what happens to you.
You are comfortable defecating in a bucket and then chucking it into the waters of Bremen. You don’t see any issue with this?
We see no reason to respond to any questions you might have.
Captain Mark
The manatee crew.

Captain Mark from the Manatees Crew, you do reserve a personal answer, since your post is the only from... 157 posts in this thread already!, that seems to be aimed to taint my honor.

Your acusations of inmaturity and narcisism have, indeed lascerated my honor. And would have very much won you a challenge to a duel, have we been living in another time and age. You see, i very much enjoy putting my life (and other peoples lifes too) in the line to back up my words.

Ok. Thats was a joke... Kind of

From your profile and your words, i infere that you Mr., are proudly and professionally seafaring in someone elses boat. It exudes also from your words, and the use of the personal pronoun "we", that an able crew seem to back up your ramble... which i very much doubt.

Since i defecate in the toilet of the marina i am berthed (for free, that is)... but i very much enjoy defecating in a bucket when at sea... and being the scatological part of this inquiry of yours clarified by me; i happily proceed to answer the rest of your ramble:

Im the first to admit that my steel boat has little to no money for maintainance budget, and had, at the time of my first post in February, a motor of unknown reliability. In my books, not bad for a flooded boat that i bought for one euro, last september. Also a boat that i slowly worked into seashape with very limited resources.

What i fail to understand, is the logic behind concluding that lacking of funds equals, in your own words to "(it) will most certain become a wreck", if there is any logic at all, that is.

It may be the lack of imagination? or maybe guts? that leads someone, apparantly educated, professional and beholder of licenses and titles, to conclude that the faith of this simple sailor is... to become a wreck. And so young in his career!

A life of leisure, without a job, is not only what I want, but what MOST people want. A job is something you do professionally, for the money. Then you get a life with that money. Nothing wrong with that. Some people even manage to save some of that money and go cruising when they retire. These people are looking forward to a life of leisure, without a job.

An amateur like me, like the name indicates, does what he does because he loves doing it. And becuse he loves it so much, he is willing to go and do it using a little less of comfort and a little more of incertitude. But dont be confused by the appareances.

You see, some people, happen to be not only very hard working, disciplined, and resilient, but are also avid to try and learn new things out of the usual frames, and believe in their capabilities (and the capabilities of the boats they work)... and are willing to work and invest themselves in achieving their dreams.

So some people will sail boats far away, without being licensed sailors. Some will design and build boats, without being naval engineers. And some will have a dream, and will actually follow it and accomplish it, almost without money.

If you lack the imagination on how a boat can be made seaworthy, and a sailor proficient, without money... you better hold fast to your dary position as the captain of someone elses boat, because that is exactly what you will get out of life. No less, no more.

Maybe it is you the one who fails to realize how dependant on others you are. An expedition boat of the characteristics of the boat from which you seem to be the proud captain, needs a small army of all from engineers to builders... to even exist.

It needs experienced sailors to come up with the specific needs, a designer to come up with resoluting ideas, engineers to make them fit into the reallity of physics, an enourmous ammount of energy put into minning, melting and forming the material, a team of specialized workers who can shape it into a boat, and then a team of braves who can sail it into the high latitudes to test the prototype until all systems are polished, most of the time with the help of a very big and thirsty motor.

So you can sail it to schedule, carrying yourself, your hopefully loyal crew, and your guests, being them scientists, or the son of the very rich owner who financed the proyect and pays for your standarized uniforms and nutriciuos meals.

Being the captain of that boat is probably in the antithesis of what i am doing. But i catch your drift.

Meanwhile, somewhere nice, i m enjoying a life of leisure and without a job, like i always did.

May i always live and just once die, the way i lived: proudly free, proudly unemployed.

Have a nice day Mr Manatee and Crew

[FAST FRED]

I think there is a glow plug in each cylinder, but not electricity reaching them."

My guess would be the engine the engine has a pre combustion chamber.

This means the fuel is squirted into a small area where it mixes better and the flame squirts into the cylinder to make the power.
This is good news as they are more efficient and usually quieter.

The bad news is the glow plug makes easy starting possible .
It is only needed for 15-300 seconds before starting , once the engine is running it will run until the fuel supply runs out.


If you want to hook the glow plug up a of on switch is used.

Any functioning 12V or car batt could be wired to the glow plug and hand crank starting would be easy .

Hope this knowledge is of use.

[Sos]

Thank you Caminantes for taking the time to update us with your work.

I loved reading your latest replies

There is only one small flaw in your plan and that is you should really be sailing a Wharram catamaran (look up James Wharram on Google!)

Well done on your journey and hope maybe our paths will cross somewhere on the sea.

Steve

[Caminantes]

Hey i just wanted to update again.
The diesel engine is still in.
Learning by doing, i started by changing oil filter and oil.

Then i built a new diesel tank (the original was half filled with rust and slime). New fuel filter. New lines (transparent).

New location for new tank: directly on top of motor (ok, maybe a meter higher).

The motor started then nice with the crank. But it was a workout at times. Almost a circus act.

Then i ve got a friend to help me with the electric installation. We created a simplified version of the electric system. After trying to fix the started motor, we finally changed it for another similar one.

Now the motor starts with the push of a button. Convinient.

The boat conversion went further and the cabin was extended. A junk sail rigged on a steel light pole replaced the old bermuda rig. More space below decks. Easy reefing and dummy proof sail handling.

We started travelling. Three humans and a dog.

We are going places. We do it in comfort. We have fun. And we feel safe.

So far we faced some strong(ish) winds (for us) (39 knots?) here in the north sea. We surfed waves.

Upwind. Downwind. Sidewind. The boat goes easy no matter what.

Now in a new port making some modifications and upgrades to the cockpit set up.

Rigged the old windvane. Built a new tiller. Built wider and higher cockpit seats (napping there is now actually enjoyable).

The motor had some issues while we where comming here. But nothing very critical.

One of the diesel inyectors developed a leak (it was repaired while sailing/motoring with a bit of wire and a sacrified bicycle inner tube). Still holding.

The water pump was leaking water on the flywheel, who distributed evenly all around the boat.

We dissasembled it now. Its a johnson pump, made for the bukh motors. The seal rings on the 12mm shaft where no longer watertight. We ordered new ones, and we are waiting for them to be delivered here.

The oil seal ring from the motor shaft (the one that goes on the axis where the flywheel is attached) was also leaking some oil. We also exchanged it.

And because we didnt knew, we also dismantled the end deckel behind the flywheel (the end cap from the drive shaft bearing?).

Yeah, it felt like we where conducting an open heart operation on a patient, except that we are no doctors.

Luckily the man who borrowed us the impact wrench to get the flywheel loose, also had a paste to create a new seal for that end deckel/cap.

The stuff box is also leaking some water in. Thats our next task. We will try to get it to leak less.

In spite of all the difficulties that having an engine meant for this newbie, i can say i m very satisfied with it.

It works and it adds to our safety feeling while learning the ropes and conducting this experiment and trip.

The bukh motor has definitively a place on the boat for the moment.

I still fantasize with an engineless boat that i can sail to places. With a dust dry, odourless bilge. A hull with no holes, where no oil, no diesel fuel, no salt water have place.

I wish i one day become a sailor who can perfectly time the tides, calculate the currents, navigate with the stars, trim the sails like one would tune a musical instrument...

But in the meanwhile, i am happy with the diesel engine, the gps, all the mb tiles and locus map charts, and all the technology on the smart phone screen.

Further updates will come. And if no update comes, then it means i finally became that sailor who dropped the phone and ditched the diesel.

In a world of pandemics and wars, a dreamer follows his dreams.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Caminantes

Hey i just wanted to update again.
The diesel engine is still in.
Learning by doing, i started by changing oil filter and oil.

Then i built a new diesel tank (the original was half filled with rust and slime). New fuel filter. New lines (transparent).

New location for new tank: directly on top of motor (ok, maybe a meter higher).

The motor started then nice with the crank. But it was a workout at times. Almost a circus act.

Then i ve got a friend to help me with the electric installation. We created a simplified version of the electric system. After trying to fix the started motor, we finally changed it for another similar one.

Now the motor starts with the push of a button. Convinient.

The boat conversion went further and the cabin was extended. A junk sail rigged on a steel light pole replaced the old bermuda rig. More space below decks. Easy reefing and dummy proof sail handling.

We started travelling. Three humans and a dog.

We are going places. We do it in comfort. We have fun. And we feel safe.

So far we faced some strong(ish) winds (for us) (39 knots?) here in the north sea. We surfed waves.

Upwind. Downwind. Sidewind. The boat goes easy no matter what.

Now in a new port making some modifications and upgrades to the cockpit set up.

Rigged the old windvane. Built a new tiller. Built wider and higher cockpit seats (napping there is now actually enjoyable).

The motor had some issues while we where comming here. But nothing very critical.

One of the diesel inyectors developed a leak (it was repaired while sailing/motoring with a bit of wire and a sacrified bicycle inner tube). Still holding.

The water pump was leaking water on the flywheel, who distributed evenly all around the boat.

We dissasembled it now. Its a johnson pump, made for the bukh motors. The seal rings on the 12mm shaft where no longer watertight. We ordered new ones, and we are waiting for them to be delivered here.

The oil seal ring from the motor shaft (the one that goes on the axis where the flywheel is attached) was also leaking some oil. We also exchanged it.

And because we didnt knew, we also dismantled the end deckel behind the flywheel (the end cap from the drive shaft bearing?).

Yeah, it felt like we where conducting an open heart operation on a patient, except that we are no doctors.

Luckily the man who borrowed us the impact wrench to get the flywheel loose, also had a paste to create a new seal for that end deckel/cap.

The stuff box is also leaking some water in. Thats our next task. We will try to get it to leak less.

In spite of all the difficulties that having an engine meant for this newbie, i can say i m very satisfied with it.

It works and it adds to our safety feeling while learning the ropes and conducting this experiment and trip.

The bukh motor has definitively a place on the boat for the moment.

I still fantasize with an engineless boat that i can sail to places. With a dust dry, odourless bilge. A hull with no holes, where no oil, no diesel fuel, no salt water have place.

I wish i one day become a sailor who can perfectly time the tides, calculate the currents, navigate with the stars, trim the sails like one would tune a musical instrument...

But in the meanwhile, i am happy with the diesel engine, the gps, all the mb tiles and locus map charts, and all the technology on the smart phone screen.

Further updates will come. And if no update comes, then it means i finally became that sailor who dropped the phone and ditched the diesel.

In a world of pandemics and wars, a dreamer follows his dreams.

Sounds like your having lots of fun
Sail on sailor

[Greatest Lakes]

Great job. Keep it up!