Docking monohull sideways advice wanted

[ben2go]

Sometimes you have to take a run and go at it and silde her in there.

[az_r2d1]

I am not sure what you have been searching for but you need to use spring lines and there are videos on youtube about that.
Make sure to tie her up with spring lines AND check both your neighbors did the same. Spring lines will keep the boat in its place and they also help you docking and leaving.

But also add the wind direction, current direction and prop direction to the equation. The wind and current direction will make it harder to practice for it since the conditions might not be the same where you try it and they will always change.
But the key word is SPRING lines.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by usdivers61

Hey guys, need a little technical advice on berthing in a tight sideways berth.


I am sure you old salts have a tried and true approach for this, but I can't find an example on YouTube or anywhere else.


As can be seen in the picture, it is pretty tight. I have aprox 13m between both boats, to somehow put my 10m yacht in there single handed without scratching anything.


First of all, generally I won't have anyone to help me, so I need to learn to do this by myself.


I have a couple ideas, hope they are not too insane.


1. Was thinking of buying one of those cheap electric thrust motors from BCF, then when coming back home to dock, setting it up just midships from the cockpit. Then when bringing my girl in, timing it right so I am just about perfect lined up with no forward movement, and then using the electric thrust motor to push stern sideways into dock, tie up quickly and then grabbing side of boat and walking the bow in....crazy??


2. 2nd idea, which I don't really want to do, is backing stern up to one of the adjacent boats, tie there with a little forward momentum from engine, but secure enough so I don't bump boat in front, jump out, secure bow, and then run back and grab stern line and secure.


I could use a little advice, all my career I never had to berth in such tight quarters.

If this is your regular dock you should leave lines to pick up with a boat hook. Is the wind possibly your friend in this? Sometimes patience is best. We use our primary winch to pull the boat in sideways. A bow thruster would help but generally overkill for 10 M boat. We note our boat has a decided prop walk that we depend on for docking. Use of prop wash is also useful.

[Aethelwulffe]

Lines, hands and planning make good safe landings...not motors. Counting on some cheezy bow thruster set-up instead of doing things straight-up is sub-optimal. Motors are made of iron, have a lot of power, and can squash people...and you don't need one on final approach unless you are motoring into the current. Even then, the throttle should only move to idle, and the transmission should only move to neutral during a landing. If this is not the case, do a failed approach and start over.

• Tie a line to either a painter ring (which anyone on any size boat that uses an anchor a lot should have), or to a handy bow cleat.
• Run that line down your dockside rail, outside of any other hardware.
• Hank it onto a spot in the cockpit next to the helm where you can grab the bitter end easily.
• Get rid of junk like excessive lifelines, push-pit rails, floppy bimini tops and all that other crap that will kill you one day anyway, so that you can reach over the gunnel to actually touch the dock.

The approach:

• Aim the bow where you want the boat stern to be.
• Make your speed about 1kt.
• Under sail, slack sheets. Under motor, put the thing in neutral well ahead of your approach.
• You should now be creeping up to the dock. As your bow gets within 1/2 a boat length, swing it to point a little forward of that original aiming point where the stern should go.
• Allow the bow to continue to swing very very slowly, but keeping you mostly perpendicular to the dock.
• As the bow gets to be about a yard from the dock, swing over harder, walking your bow along over the dock, basically as if you were trying to sweep people off the dock using your bowsprit (or anchor platform on lesser vessels ) until you can swing a little harder to bring your stern in alongside the dock.
• You should be able to swing the boat into place in this manner, just missing the dock...and you should only be barely moving forward.
• There now must be a cleat or bollard alongside the stern with which you can put a round turn onto with that line you lead from the bow.
• This line will then act as both a bow spring line, and a stern line. First, it will stop the forward momentum hard. Second, that motion will be redirected into twisting the bow against the dock. That motion will be offset by your hold on the bitter end of the line (which you should probably cleat off now).
• You may now hop ashore or otherwise work your other lines, but you will not be in danger of the boat swinging out. This one line led from the bow to the cleat alongside the stern and thus to the stern (or midship) cleat of the boat will be holding the boat firmly against the dock, and the bow will barely be able to swing out at all.

NOTE: Do not use large fenders (over 12"). Instead, for landing, just screw some terrycloth (old towels, whatever) onto a nice long board using oversize countersinks in the board to keep the screws/washers nicely recessed. I have used old 3" firehose filled with pipe insulation and wrapped in a tube sewn out of terrycloth bought on a roll, but frankly rolling up some old towels lengthwise and securing them with blue tape has worked fine (and was left that way for longer than I care to admit). This rub-board should go on the dock, but it is possible to deploy it over the side of the boat...though on the dock it can be secured fully, and not just dangling (where it can get lifted up and out of the way). You do not want a fender that will bounce, catch, or otherwise deflect your hull in a direction you are not aiming it.
You don't want a "rolling" fender setup either, as you ideally want to miss the dock by a slim margin, and those cause other issues. If you use a rolling fender (PVC inserted into line hole in fender as a bushing, with an axle inside) make one that rolls up and down for tide and wake mitigation, not sideways. Better to have a floating dock!


Final word on mooring alongside in this manner: Yes, use the usual spring lines and stuff, but try to set everything up so as the boat only contacts the dock at the beam...ever. If high-tide leaves you all loosy-goosey, look to mounting your lines to the dock *lower*, so that mid-tide is when your lines are most slack, and you are up tight at low and high tide.

[Carver Power]

Thrusters
Another thought I have seen, If you are able to grab a line placed hanging from either one of the boats or both tied off from a cleat on the dock, I have a buddy with a side tie for his cat and this is what he does.

[Aethelwulffe]

P.S. as Nicholson58 said "Sometimes patience is best"...though I would amend that to say "Anything other than patience is a sure way for everything to go to hell in a handbasket propelled by a supercharged poo-flinging fan towed by a Tesla Model S."
-If the boat has steerageway (will turn when you move the helm), you are going fast enough. Prepare your lines before you get even close to the marina. If you have crew, and the dock is covered with stuff like power-poles and other things that prevent you from swinging your bow over it (and your likely oversized anchor), then putting your nose to the dock at the midship point of the berth, picking up a line made off at both ends of the berth, and walking that down to a midship cleat (and using a pre-tied eye-in-the-bight) to make it off is an excellent alternative that does not look as cool, is a lot less convenient, but still complies with the primary requirement: Planned Patient Progress.

Progresso Peligrino!

[Donald R]

I found an interesting method in the ASA cruisers study guide. Hang a fender off the dock about where you would like the bow to when docked. Motor at slow speed pointing the bow at the fender at an extreme angle. Once the bow comes in contact with the fender, gently accelerate in forward and turn the rudder a bit away from from the dock. The gentle push against the dock while the fender provides cushion will will cause the stern to walk into the dock since the boat cannot go forward and can only swing side ways toward the dock. This method works for tight spaces and for single handed docking. Obviously you need to be nimble in hopping off of the boat and securing spring and fore and aft lines guickly once the boat is parallel to the dock. This method is tougher to pull off in a chop or if winds are blowing away from the dock. Either condition makes it harder to maintain contact with the fender and the dock when nosing up to them. If this works for you, the fender hanging from the dock can be left in the proper position permanently for you next approach.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Aethelwulffe

Lines, hands and planning make good safe landings...not motors. Counting on some cheezy bow thruster set-up instead of doing things straight-up is sub-optimal. Motors are made of iron, have a lot of power, and can squash people...and you don't need one on final approach unless you are motoring into the current. Even then, the throttle should only move to idle, and the transmission should only move to neutral during a landing. If this is not the case, do a failed approach and start over.

• Tie a line to either a painter ring (which anyone on any size boat that uses an anchor a lot should have), or to a handy bow cleat.
• Run that line down your dockside rail, outside of any other hardware.
• Hank it onto a spot in the cockpit next to the helm where you can grab the bitter end easily.
• Get rid of junk like excessive lifelines, push-pit rails, floppy bimini tops and all that other crap that will kill you one day anyway, so that you can reach over the gunnel to actually touch the dock.

The approach:

• Aim the bow where you want the boat stern to be.
• Make your speed about 1kt.
• Under sail, slack sheets. Under motor, put the thing in neutral well ahead of your approach.
• You should now be creeping up to the dock. As your bow gets within 1/2 a boat length, swing it to point a little forward of that original aiming point where the stern should go.
• Allow the bow to continue to swing very very slowly, but keeping you mostly perpendicular to the dock.
• As the bow gets to be about a yard from the dock, swing over harder, walking your bow along over the dock, basically as if you were trying to sweep people off the dock using your bowsprit (or anchor platform on lesser vessels ) until you can swing a little harder to bring your stern in alongside the dock.
• You should be able to swing the boat into place in this manner, just missing the dock...and you should only be barely moving forward.
• There now must be a cleat or bollard alongside the stern with which you can put a round turn onto with that line you lead from the bow.
• This line will then act as both a bow spring line, and a stern line. First, it will stop the forward momentum hard. Second, that motion will be redirected into twisting the bow against the dock. That motion will be offset by your hold on the bitter end of the line (which you should probably cleat off now).
• You may now hop ashore or otherwise work your other lines, but you will not be in danger of the boat swinging out. This one line led from the bow to the cleat alongside the stern and thus to the stern (or midship) cleat of the boat will be holding the boat firmly against the dock, and the bow will barely be able to swing out at all.

NOTE: Do not use large fenders (over 12"). Instead, for landing, just screw some terrycloth (old towels, whatever) onto a nice long board using oversize countersinks in the board to keep the screws/washers nicely recessed. I have used old 3" firehose filled with pipe insulation and wrapped in a tube sewn out of terrycloth bought on a roll, but frankly rolling up some old towels lengthwise and securing them with blue tape has worked fine (and was left that way for longer than I care to admit). This rub-board should go on the dock, but it is possible to deploy it over the side of the boat...though on the dock it can be secured fully, and not just dangling (where it can get lifted up and out of the way). You do not want a fender that will bounce, catch, or otherwise deflect your hull in a direction you are not aiming it.
You don't want a "rolling" fender setup either, as you ideally want to miss the dock by a slim margin, and those cause other issues. If you use a rolling fender (PVC inserted into line hole in fender as a bushing, with an axle inside) make one that rolls up and down for tide and wake mitigation, not sideways. Better to have a floating dock!


Final word on mooring alongside in this manner: Yes, use the usual spring lines and stuff, but try to set everything up so as the boat only contacts the dock at the beam...ever. If high-tide leaves you all loosy-goosey, look to mounting your lines to the dock *lower*, so that mid-tide is when your lines are most slack, and you are up tight at low and high tide.

Lot of good advice from an obviously very skilled sailor.



However -- note that the particular case of the OP contemplates being blown off the dock with a significant amount of wind. That really changes a lot of things and vastly complicates the procedures. "Creeping up to the dock" is no longer an option -- the bow blows away. When you're being blown off, you have no choice but to use quite a bit more speed and momentum approaching the dock, and you have less time to get lines on.


When you're getting blown off, one key essential thing is to get yourself attached by any means necessary to midships. A line from one end of the boat will just have you swinging off into an irrecoverable posture. If you can't get yourself tied up closely amidships, you might at least be able to winch yourself in. This is kind of inglorious, but it works, and I do this often when single handed and being blown off.



And another thing -- different people have mentioned bow thrusters. Thrusters are nearly useless in the OP's situation. I have a powerful thruster -- 10 horsepower! -- and it will not hold my bow up in more than about 15 knots of wind, much less pull it up against the wind. More average bowthrusters much less than that.


Bow thrusters are for steering, and are fantastically useful for that, but not for brute force.

[gwyn]

Pre-rigged bow spring led back to cockpit, to get on.

Have you tried spronging off. (not typo for springing). Google it and watch videos.

Learn a couple of methods of lassoing.

[deblen]

Originally Posted by Aethelwulffe

Lines, hands and planning make good safe landings...not motors. Counting on some cheezy bow thruster set-up instead of doing things straight-up is sub-optimal. Motors are made of iron, have a lot of power, and can squash people...and you don't need one on final approach unless you are motoring into the current. Even then, the throttle should only move to idle, and the transmission should only move to neutral during a landing. If this is not the case, do a failed approach and start over.

• Tie a line to either a painter ring (which anyone on any size boat that uses an anchor a lot should have), or to a handy bow cleat.
• Run that line down your dockside rail, outside of any other hardware.
• Hank it onto a spot in the cockpit next to the helm where you can grab the bitter end easily.
• Get rid of junk like excessive lifelines, push-pit rails, floppy bimini tops and all that other crap that will kill you one day anyway, so that you can reach over the gunnel to actually touch the dock.

The approach:

• Aim the bow where you want the boat stern to be.
• Make your speed about 1kt.
• Under sail, slack sheets. Under motor, put the thing in neutral well ahead of your approach.
• You should now be creeping up to the dock. As your bow gets within 1/2 a boat length, swing it to point a little forward of that original aiming point where the stern should go.
• Allow the bow to continue to swing very very slowly, but keeping you mostly perpendicular to the dock.
• As the bow gets to be about a yard from the dock, swing over harder, walking your bow along over the dock, basically as if you were trying to sweep people off the dock using your bowsprit (or anchor platform on lesser vessels ) until you can swing a little harder to bring your stern in alongside the dock.
• You should be able to swing the boat into place in this manner, just missing the dock...and you should only be barely moving forward.
• There now must be a cleat or bollard alongside the stern with which you can put a round turn onto with that line you lead from the bow.
• This line will then act as both a bow spring line, and a stern line. First, it will stop the forward momentum hard. Second, that motion will be redirected into twisting the bow against the dock. That motion will be offset by your hold on the bitter end of the line (which you should probably cleat off now).
• You may now hop ashore or otherwise work your other lines, but you will not be in danger of the boat swinging out. This one line led from the bow to the cleat alongside the stern and thus to the stern (or midship) cleat of the boat will be holding the boat firmly against the dock, and the bow will barely be able to swing out at all.

NOTE: Do not use large fenders (over 12"). Instead, for landing, just screw some terrycloth (old towels, whatever) onto a nice long board using oversize countersinks in the board to keep the screws/washers nicely recessed. I have used old 3" firehose filled with pipe insulation and wrapped in a tube sewn out of terrycloth bought on a roll, but frankly rolling up some old towels lengthwise and securing them with blue tape has worked fine (and was left that way for longer than I care to admit). This rub-board should go on the dock, but it is possible to deploy it over the side of the boat...though on the dock it can be secured fully, and not just dangling (where it can get lifted up and out of the way). You do not want a fender that will bounce, catch, or otherwise deflect your hull in a direction you are not aiming it.
You don't want a "rolling" fender setup either, as you ideally want to miss the dock by a slim margin, and those cause other issues. If you use a rolling fender (PVC inserted into line hole in fender as a bushing, with an axle inside) make one that rolls up and down for tide and wake mitigation, not sideways. Better to have a floating dock!


Final word on mooring alongside in this manner: Yes, use the usual spring lines and stuff, but try to set everything up so as the boat only contacts the dock at the beam...ever. If high-tide leaves you all loosy-goosey, look to mounting your lines to the dock *lower*, so that mid-tide is when your lines are most slack, and you are up tight at low and high tide.

How do you get your bow to "swing sideways"-without a thruster?


Creeping is only viable in no wind & no current.


Capt Ron video does this exact maneuver perfectly & agressively .


Cheers/ Len

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

And another thing -- different people have mentioned bow thrusters. Thrusters are nearly useless in the OP's situation. I have a powerful thruster -- 10 horsepower! -- and it will not hold my bow up in more than about 15 knots of wind, much less pull it up against the wind. More average bowthrusters much less than that.


Bow thrusters are for steering, and are fantastically useful for that, but not for brute force.

Unfortunately you are right, if not in theory but in practice. It's very true that most bow thrusters are woefully underpowered and especially further true on sailboats.

Even motoryachts can have the same problem, and even large motoryachts. But that need not be the case.

I was fortunate enough to captain one medium and larger motoryacht in the past, both of which could walk directly sideways parallel to the dock (or other boats, for stern to), even in 25kn true which was very very cool. But I must admit that, especially in the larger boat (44m), a lot of horsepower and thrust was being used at that point and a mistake could have been significant, especially during the stern to scenario.

None of this alleviated the need for a good plan and good line handling though, because all it meant was that the bar was raised for what could and could not be achieved as far as docking situations.

[pbmaise]

There is only one tried and true way to ensure you will not be paying to repair other vessels or your own. I have docked my huge high windage trimaran with no bow thruster in extremely close quarters in both high winds and current.

#1 Check wind and approach upwind. Note: Unless dealing with a much higher current that controls your vessel. In

#2 Approach close along side the vessel to stern or your berth. Fenders are obviously out.

3A. If you have an available crew member have that person get onto that other vessel and carry a floating line. Continue to along side the vessel in front of berth and attach a line. Kill engine.

3B. Without a crew member you should continue onto vessel upwind of berth, coast to a position along side, and tie off. Kill engine. Then get off your vessel and carry a line to vessel to stern.

4. Alternate between releasing and taking up slack between lines attached to two vessels.

5. After positioned, attach line(s) to dock and rope yourself into your berth.

[EmeraldCoastSailor]

Based on original post I'd not go bow first. Assuming aft cockpit boat, with the ability to get on dock easily from stern (big assumption I know), I'd back to dock and pick a line connected to dock. Of course placement of dock cleats is a critical detail but I'd have two lines set in the middle of your spot and two others (one for bow and one for stern). If you can't pickup stern line then pickup both middle lines and secure one to stern boat cleat and the other amidships; if wind and current won't keep your boat off dock and away from neighbor boats then idle speed forward to make sure you don't touch anything (secured line to stern boat cleat is holding you safe). Get off boat and get stern line from dock, get back on boat, and secure it to stern boat cleat. If wind and current allow and engine is in neutral (big if) then pull on stern and midships lines to get yourself positioned, then pickup and secure bow line. If engine is in forward keeping boat off dock then you will need to spring in by transferring tension from first line picked up (mid dock line attached to stern boat cleat) to the midships line (second line connected). Now that the midship line is carrying load from engine you use wheel to bring boat to dock also while pulling in on stern line (third line connected) as boat comes around from midship spring. I'd make sure whatever you do you practice it several times with 2 people helping out (or when the other boats aren't there) to work out the kinks. For my docking techniques I always try to break things down in step by step fashion so that the boat is always controlled and that if one step fails (picking up or connecting a line typically) the boat is controlled and you have another chance. And while there will be points of no return, I try to have an abort option (might be a few steps) to get the boat back out in open water so I can regroup.

[usdivers61]

Originally Posted by EmeraldCoastSailor

Based on original post I'd not go bow first. Assuming aft cockpit boat, with the ability to get on dock easily from stern (big assumption I know), I'd back to dock and pick a line connected to dock. Of course placement of dock cleats is a critical detail but I'd have two lines set in the middle of your spot and two others (one for bow and one for stern). If you can't pickup stern line then pickup both middle lines and secure one to stern boat cleat and the other amidships; if wind and current won't keep your boat off dock and away from neighbor boats then idle speed forward to make sure you don't touch anything (secured line to stern boat cleat is holding you safe). Get off boat and get stern line from dock, get back on boat, and secure it to stern boat cleat. If wind and current allow and engine is in neutral (big if) then pull on stern and midships lines to get yourself positioned, then pickup and secure bow line. If engine is in forward keeping boat off dock then you will need to spring in by transferring tension from first line picked up (mid dock line attached to stern boat cleat) to the midships line (second line connected). Now that the midship line is carrying load from engine you use wheel to bring boat to dock also while pulling in on stern line (third line connected) as boat comes around from midship spring. I'd make sure whatever you do you practice it several times with 2 people helping out (or when the other boats aren't there) to work out the kinks. For my docking techniques I always try to break things down in step by step fashion so that the boat is always controlled and that if one step fails (picking up or connecting a line typically) the boat is controlled and you have another chance. And while there will be points of no return, I try to have an abort option (might be a few steps) to get the boat back out in open water so I can regroup.

Thanks for that...using that rationale, and another tip from another member of the forum who mentioned pre-rigging a line midships and picking it up as I come in is what I ended up doing.


Practiced for a week at my old marina, and then picked a good day midweek when area was nice and quiet to move to new berth. Worked like a charm, backed in with stern fenders insitu just in case (which in the end, I didn't even need).


Backed in slowly, picked up the pre-rigged dock line midships, dropped on my cleat, and then walked my boat to starboard with a little forward throttle, and she came up against the dock perfect. At the time, I didn't know I had an audience, my marina owner came down and said "nice work"...haha.


In the end, did not even come close to either boat forward or at the stern. I did have someone from my old marina come for the ride just in case things went sideways, but in the end I didn't need the help.


Thanks to everyone on the forum for the awesome advice.

[Sailmon]

Sorry, I don’t have the patience to read 6 pages of replies - so please forgive me if this has already been said. I use a technique which a dock master once upon a time called the “Captain Ron technique”. If you have seen the movie Captain Ron, you will know what I am talked by about. Of course in the movie he did it at speed, and we take to heart the advice given earlier - to not approach a fixed object (dock) faster than you are prepared to hit it. That said, we approach a dock in our 38’ wing keel mono hull at 1 knot at a 45 to 60 degree angle, aiming bow at dock. When about 4 to 5’ off we turn wheel sharply to starboard, causing the boat to begin sliding sideways toward the dock. When almost parallel to the dock shift to reverse & goose the engine. This stops forward movement so you don’t hit the boat ahead & the prop walk in reverse moves the stern up against the dock. Attach dock lines & open a beer. Definitely want to practice on open dock before attempting in close quarters - but it really works.