Dorades?

[wingssail]

I really think that your concern about capsizing represents an unreasonable focus on an event which is so rare that it is a waste of time to think much about it.

Particularly, thinking about a Dorade's ability to be closed is really focus on a minor detail compared to a few others, like will the rig stay on? will the stove crush me? what about the person on deck?, is the life raft still there? which might warrant a bit higher priority in your list of concerns.

And anyhow, if the boat capsized and stayed capsized it's not like you are going to close off the dorades and then sit down there in your upside down vessel and play gin rummy with your crew while trying to be comfortable waiting for rescue.

There are quite a few other very rare disasters which are probably more likely to occur which you could think about, like if you are knocked down how hard will it be to reef the main? or if the engine fails can you sail off a lee shore in a gale? or if a through hull fails can you insert a soft plug? Or if the windlass fails can you raise the anchor manually? In fact, of the top 100 bad events, I don't think closing a dorade in a capsize is even on the list.

Consider this hull shape. Have we ever heard of even one of these staying capsized? (it's mine, IOR hull shape)

[Bill O]

If the keel fell off, then you would have a problem.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Bill O

If the keel fell off, then you would have a problem.

And if the mast of either of us fell off we'd have a problem. So what?

But if I find myself on a lee shore in a blow I won't have the problem that some others would have. I find that situation more common than losing a keel or mast.

[TeddyDiver]

Consider reversed standpipes. IE pipes down and towards midship from dorade vents below the inverted or knock down waterline. That prevents flooding except the amount of standpipe volume when boat is straighting back up..

[KayZee]

door-aid or door-awed? Being american the trailing E makes me think long vowel but the royatlists say door-awed.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by KayZee

door-aid or door-awed? Being american the trailing E makes me think long vowel but the royatlists say door-awed.

If French origin, (as a name for fish species) vowels short. Trying to pronounce anything foreign as US-english turns out a gurgle..

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by KayZee

door-aid or door-awed? Being american the trailing E makes me think long vowel but the royatlists say door-awed.

The name of the boat is Dorade (Dor'-aid)

By the way, for those that don't know, Dorade is a classic Olin Stephens racing boat launched in 1930. It's narrow and light weight design startled the ocean racing community and many felt the boat was unsafe to go to sea but it proved to be safe and fast and won many races including a notably rough 1932 fastnet race.

From 1947 to 1979 Dorade was based in Seattle sailed and raced the waters of the Pacific North West. In 1979 Dorade, in the Swiftsure Race, was involved with a collision with the yacht Zuben Ubi which promptly sank.

One of my students later captained Dorade when it was a sail training ship based in East Sound, Orcas Island. I toured the boat and was surprised at how small the boat was for a 52' boat.

Dorade was restored in 1997 and continues to sail and win races. https://dorade.org/highs-and-lows-of...ummer-sailing/

In 2013 Dorade won First overall in Transpac.

Dorade's revolutionary ventilators are called "Dorades"

Read about the sinking here: https://books.google.com.mx/books?id...%20ubi&f=false

[Mattdewizard]

Originally Posted by wingssail

I really think that your concern about capsizing represents an unreasonable focus on an event which is so rare that it is a waste of time to think much about it.

Particularly, thinking about a Dorade's ability to be closed is really focus on a minor detail compared to a few others, like will the rig stay on? will the stove crush me? what about the person on deck?, is the life raft still there? which might warrant a bit higher priority in your list of concerns.

And anyhow, if the boat capsized and stayed capsized it's not like you are going to close off the dorades and then sit down there in your upside down vessel and play gin rummy with your crew while trying to be comfortable waiting for rescue.

There are quite a few other very rare disasters which are probably more likely to occur which you could think about, like if you are knocked down how hard will it be to reef the main? or if the engine fails can you sail off a lee shore in a gale? or if a through hull fails can you insert a soft plug? Or if the windlass fails can you raise the anchor manually? In fact, of the top 100 bad events, I don't think closing a dorade in a capsize is even on the list.

Consider this hull shape. Have we ever heard of even one of these staying capsized? (it's mine, IOR hull shape)

I'm sure I will have many more questions and worries once I learn how to sail and captain a vessel. For now I'm focusing on the engineering aspect. I really like the idea of a pilot house because hopefully no one will be on deck in the unlikely event of a capsize. If they are then hopefully the float free life raft has been serviced regularly. If not playing gin rummy what would you be doing in your capsized boat? Can't tell what hull shape that is from picture.

[Mattdewizard]

? How about this scenerio. Your boat capsizes, you and 6 crewmen are trapped in the watertight pilot house. There was one person on deck during capsize. They were wearing a survival suit with integrated life vest, epirb attached, and your vessel is equiped with a float free life raft. Would you open the companionway door letting in the cold ocean water to help that person, jeopardizing the lives of others or not?

[skipperpete]

Originally Posted by Bill O

If the keel fell off, then you would have a problem.

The late Tony Bullimores did ..... in the southern ocean. [ATTACH]265807

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by KayZee

door-aid or door-awed? Being american the trailing E makes me think long vowel but the royatlists say door-awed.

To me it’s always been “ door-adddd”

Any way don’t decent ones have shutoff mechanisms.

Not that you see many classic dorades these days anyway.

I think if you boat inverts the dorades will be the least concern.

[letsgetsailing3]

This entire thread reminds me of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid quote. You're likely worried about the wrong thing.

The Sundance Kid: "I can't swim." [to Butch]

Butch Cassidy: "Are you crazy? The fall will probably kill you.”

The key here is to do all the things necessary to NOT get capsized. Proper equipment, know how to sail in weather, etc.

The odds of being in a sustained capsize are astronomically low. And like folks have said, you'd just shove something into any open holes to slow the water leaking in while you figured out the situation.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

This entire thread reminds me of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid quote. You're likely worried about the wrong thing.

The Sundance Kid: "I can't swim." [to Butch]

Butch Cassidy: "Are you crazy? The fall will probably kill you.”

The key here is to do all the things necessary to NOT get capsized. Proper equipment, know how to sail in weather, etc.

The odds of being in a sustained capsize are astronomically low. And like folks have said, you'd just shove something into any open holes to slow the water leaking in while you figured out the situation.

Correct. It reminds me of the following conversation on a well known vhf manufacturers exhibition stand.

“ I see your new radios are waterproof to 2metres”

“ yes that’s correct sir “

“ well what happens if I capsize and I’m 4 metres down “

“ I think sir, the vhf radio will be the last thing in your mind at that point “

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Any way don’t decent ones have shutoff mechanisms.

Not that you see many classic dorades these days anyway.

I think if you boat inverts the dorades will be the least concern.

We have 4 "classic" dorade boxes on our boat and they work well/have good air flow. Not as good as a hatch, but they keep air flowing and rain/spray out (on an upright boat) when one normally would have hatches closed.

Do not think the ones with the shutoffs allow as much air below and therefore would not be as good as a properly designed "classic" dorade box.

Found this unpublished manuscript awhile back from Rod Stephens discussing the boat Dorade and the properly designed dorade box. http://dorade.org/RAS_On_Sailing_Master.pdf

[MicHughV]

I've had dorade boxes on previous boats.

While you can remove the cowl vent and replace with a cap, the dorade box typically has small drain holes situated somewhere.

I can tell you from personal experience, that even with the cowl vent removed and cap in place, a wave breaking over the boat will find that little drain hole, and you will get water inside the boat.

Were the boat to turn turtle, I could not say, how much water will enter the boat thru' the dorade box, probably some, but not likely to flood or sink the boat.