Down to 4 Boats...Please Help Me Decide...

[cal40john]

I've sailed several boats. The only one on your list that I've sailed is the Morgan OI 41 sloop version. I was disappointed with its ability to sail upwind. Some people in some areas don't care about this. In the Salish Sea you're either sailing upwind or downwind and my destinations seemed to almost always be upwind.

[Jimbo2010]

run each boat on https://sailboatdata.com

then compare the stats

[boatman61]

Endeavour 37 with the A layout..

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Wild_At_Heart

New Short List

C&C 40 CRUSADER C&C Design C&C Yachts
BRISTOL 3800 Ted Hood Bristol Yachts
BRISTOL 38.8 Ted Hood Bristol Yachts
BRISTOL 41.1 Ted Hood, Dieter Empacher Bristol Yachts
HOOD 38 (WAUQUIEZ) Ted Hood Henry Wauquiez (Chantier)
OCEAN CRUISING 40 Henry R. Hinckley Hinckley Yachts
SOVEREL 41
PEARSON 40 William Shaw Pearson Yachts


These are the boats in my price range. I also had a Stevens 40, but that's well out of my price range.

I can sacrifice the Ketch rig and get wind vane steering for backup steering/piloting.

Certainly a jump up in performance in this list. Are these boats available near you now and in your budget? For your purposes though I like the Bristol 38.8... but many many boats are good candidates, except your budget may not be up to it. It is best not to blow your whole wad on the purchase. Depending on the boat you choose, there will be more things to get after the purchase. If you settle on one design you may have to search the world over. But if you focus on your list of "must-haves" you may find a great candidate right around the corner.

[Sailorlou]

If you go with a boat over 45 feet a Ketch in my mind may make sense. However if you are under 45 feet I would opt for a Cutter rig. The Pearson 367 is a better choice then the 365.

[NorthCoastJoe]

Where are you located? My old Downeaster 38 is for sale again the guy who bought it had a severe leg injury and needs to sell it cheap in Bodega Bay California.
He has it listed on Craigslist.

[Wild_At_Heart]

Originally Posted by NorthCoastJoe

Where are you located? My old Downeaster 38 is for sale again the guy who bought it had a severe leg injury and needs to sell it cheap in Bodega Bay California.
He has it listed on Craigslist.

Originally Posted by AiniA

I don't think I would choose any of these boats. Have you considered any of the Ted Hood designed centreboarders? Or a Wauquiez or older Amel? These are serious cruising boats. In our experience, tens of thousands of miles offshore, you see an incredible range of boats in obscure places, but that does not mean people have made the best choice.

You mention seeing three boats in one day. Were these all local? You have to be prepared to go where the boats are after. When we were looking for a boat for live aboard/circumnavigation (from Toronto) we looked at boats from Maine to the Chesapeake. There just were no suitable boats on Lake Ontario or nearby lakes. We found our boat in Rhode Island.

One thing to consider when redoing standing rigging, beef up the aft lowers. When we crossed the Indian Ocean to South Africa from Indonesia we had an aft lower wire break. This after three weeks of delightful sailing broad-reaching in 25-35 knots (and crossing the Pacific downwind). The rigger said the aft lowers take a huge load in such winds and should be at least as large as cap shrouds.

Also, with your budget and for singlehanding I would be looking for something smaller and better. Two minutes on Yachtworld I came up with the boat below. Not suggesting you buy his particular boat, just an example of the kind of boat and distance shopping that can pay off.

I'm in Houston, Texas, at the moment. I can and am willing to travel anywhere in the U.S. (and even some parts of Canada) to buy a boat.

I live and work from an RV and have done so for the past 7 1/2 years. I'm ready to transition to a sailboat to extend my adventure!

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Wild_At_Heart

How big of a pain in the ass are swing keels to maintain though?

They're a major nuisance. I had a boat with a stub keel and centerboard once, and a Hunter 26 with a centerboard only. I had a friend sell his Montgomery because he didn't want to fuss with the swing keel repair it needed.

The thing about swing keels and centerboards is that they do require maintenance -- they get marine growth, the hardware corrodes -- and as a rule that maintenance can only be performed while the boat is in the slings. Generally, the only way you can access the centerboard case (or keel case) is to lower and remove the centerboard (or keel). It's too heavy for divers to be able to do it. It requires too much clearance to be done on the cradle or on stands.

So something basic like getting a couple of coats of antifouling on the keel and the keel case becomes a very big deal because the boat has to sit in the slings while the keel is dropped, the antifouling is applied, the first coat dries, the second code is applied, and the keel is reinstalled. So you're paying for travelift time and shop time, and you can't do any of the work yourself (the yard won't let you).


They've become rare because of this, and because there are now some shallow keel designs that are good enough, and because there are catamarans for people who absolutely must have really shallow draft.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Wild_At_Heart

BTW My budget is under $70,000. All the boats I'm looking at can be found for that (sans the CSY) fully-to-mostly provisioned for that price.

How much sailing experience do you have?


Are you going to be able to get insurance? Have you looked into it? Will insurance be a problem on these older boats? If you don't have insurance, can you get a slip at a marina? If not, where will you keep the boat?


Do the boats that you are looking at still have the original gasoline engines, or have they all been repowered?



When we were shopping a couple of years ago I looked at $70,000 boats and concluded that we couldn't afford any of them so we increased our budget to $120,000 to save money in the long run.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Wild_At_Heart

I'm in Houston, Texas, at the moment. I can and am willing to travel anywhere in the U.S. (and even some parts of Canada) to buy a boat.

I live and work from an RV and have done so for the past 7 1/2 years. I'm ready to transition to a sailboat to extend my adventure!

Before I got my boat, I had been looking up and down the west coast, certain that I'd travel for the right boat. Luckily I didn't have to. Something about looking closer to home is that you are probably going to want to get it surveyed and it can be a challenge to find a good surveyor from afar. I was lucky because I know a great surveyor and I have a friend who's been a rigger for over 40 years I could bounce ideas off of, and I knew the boats I was looking at. In your case, with your budget, I would think it would be good to save some cash by looking more locally, and chances are you'll find what you are looking for nearby.

[old pirate]

I would go back to the Durbeck. The harder it blows, the more she likes it !

[Wild_At_Heart]

Originally Posted by Jammer

How much sailing experience do you have?


Are you going to be able to get insurance? Have you looked into it? Will insurance be a problem on these older boats? If you don't have insurance, can you get a slip at a marina? If not, where will you keep the boat?


Do the boats that you are looking at still have the original gasoline engines, or have they all been repowered?



When we were shopping a couple of years ago I looked at $70,000 boats and concluded that we couldn't afford any of them so we increased our budget to $120,000 to save money in the long run.

Only sailing experience is through classes, but I'm confident I can handle skippering. I'm a natural at it thus far. I've found my talent.

Progressive has already quoted me $3300 a year for full coverage ($70,000 in insured value). $300 a year for liability only.

[Wild_At_Heart]

Originally Posted by Jammer

They're a major nuisance. I had a boat with a stub keel and centerboard once, and a Hunter 26 with a centerboard only. I had a friend sell his Montgomery because he didn't want to fuss with the swing keel repair it needed.

The thing about swing keels and centerboards is that they do require maintenance -- they get marine growth, the hardware corrodes -- and as a rule that maintenance can only be performed while the boat is in the slings. Generally, the only way you can access the centerboard case (or keel case) is to lower and remove the centerboard (or keel). It's too heavy for divers to be able to do it. It requires too much clearance to be done on the cradle or on stands.

So something basic like getting a couple of coats of antifouling on the keel and the keel case becomes a very big deal because the boat has to sit in the slings while the keel is dropped, the antifouling is applied, the first coat dries, the second code is applied, and the keel is reinstalled. So you're paying for travelift time and shop time, and you can't do any of the work yourself (the yard won't let you).


They've become rare because of this, and because there are now some shallow keel designs that are good enough, and because there are catamarans for people who absolutely must have really shallow draft.

Sounds like I might want to move to door #3 - Bilge keeled (i.e. Reinke, Westerly, Moody, etc.). That'll have me going to Europe to buy a boat. How much does a delivery captain run? I've already priced boat delivery by ship at $20,000.

[Wild_At_Heart]

Taking out the swing keel boats, my list is down to one...

NORTH CASTLE (Gozzard) 36

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/198...rd-36-8870083/


Add in bilge keels and these two fit the bill, but are probably slower...

Reinke 11
Reinke 12


This brings us back to the CSY 44 as well. I may have to bite the bullet.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Wild_At_Heart

Taking out the swing keel boats, my list is down to one...

NORTH CASTLE (Gozzard) 36

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/198...rd-36-8870083/


Add in bilge keels and these two fit the bill, but are probably slower...

Reinke 11
Reinke 12
Solway 36

Well the hull speed of the Laurent Giles designed Solway is a tad faster than the Gozzard... and he designed slippery hulls.
On many points they are surprisingly fast, the downside of the bilge keeler is going to windward, but is it worse than a full keeler.???
As for a delivery skipper.. maybe 50% of the shipping cost depending on travel costs.