Excuse me sir, don‘t wanna lowball but...

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by crankysailor

I dunno.. if you think about a 100K USD 40ft boat costing anywhere from 2 to 4K or even more in marina fees plus running maintenance assuming you don't just neglect the poor boat.. somewhere north of 5K a year .. damn that is a lot of coffee you americans are drinking!! [emoji3]

OK, coffee plus snacks 8-)

Or add comms/entertainment subscriptions.

Seriously, I know many people spend average $10+ a day just at Starbucks, and over $300 a month for a family's screens.

And our data rates are lower than many tgird-world countries, regulatory capture's meant most local markets have little competition.

[Olly75]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

The problem is that sellers have to deal with so many flakes thinking that they can steal a nicely kept boat and it's all internet related. Flakes have a harder time on the phone and in person so if your a buyer get away from your keyboard and either go and look at it or get on the phone.

Completely understand, and I'm heading out in a couple of weeks to pound some more Mexican pontoons. But if I'm selling a boat and someone phones me to leave a message saying that they are standing beside my boat and want to have a proper look at a time convenient to me I would certainly respond. As for the sellers who put together a bespoke website, why bother if you assume all you are going to get is internet related tire kickers?

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

The problem is that sellers have to deal with so many flakes thinking that they can steal a nicely kept boat and it's all internet related. Flakes have a harder time on the phone and in person so if your a buyer get away from your keyboard and either go and look at it or get on the phone.

I used to sell things on Craigslist. Exactly same thing - too many people who are not real buyers, just wondering around or trying to get things for nothing.
But in my case it was part of my business, so I kept my pricing and just filtered unwanted "flakes", not answering many of them at all (and I could easily recognize them, experience, you know?).
Items I was selling didn't require any "maintenance", practically didn't depreciate with time, neither it would matter if I accidentally would lose 1 or 10 buyers. Yeah, I know, must be I'm not the best businessman .

If I would sell personal item, which would depreciate with time, things would be very different - price would be much more "friendly", and I would be interested to get rid of it as soon as possible (think cars).

At some unknown reason many sellers (or brokers? or both?) truly believe that boats they're selling also don't depreciate with time.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

So, contract can't be terminated if owner sells boat on his own?

Ordinarily, no. The typical contract with a broker is almost identical to the typical contract with a realtor for selling a home.

Originally Posted by ranchero76

I'd never give exclusive rights to the broker.

Then you will be selling on your own, as there are almost no brokers out there who will not insist on exclusive rights for the duration of the contract period.

Again, this is exactly like engaging a realtor to sell your home. Of course a lot of people sell their homes without a realtor. Even more TRY to do so, and end up engaging a realtor when they realize it's not as easy as they expected. I believe that I once read something close to 3/4ths of the people who try to sell their homes themselves eventually end up dealing with a real estate broker. I have no idea what the percentage might be for boat sellers.

There are good brokers and there are bad brokers. A good broker is worth every penny that he (or she) will cost you. The trick, of course, is to weed out the bad ones.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

There are good brokers and there are bad brokers. A good broker is worth every penny that he (or she) will cost you. The trick, of course, is to weed out the bad ones.

I'm sure there are a few good brokers out there somewhere but I've never met one. Most think if the boat is floating it's in mint condition and an oil change constitutes an engine rebuild. Through in a new main sheet and it's listed with all new rigging. And of course it just gets worse from there.

[lifeofreilly57]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

Ordinarily, no. The typical contract with a broker is almost identical to the typical contract with a realtor for selling a home.


Then you will be selling on your own, as there are almost no brokers out there who will not insist on exclusive rights for the duration of the contract period.

Again, this is exactly like engaging a realtor to sell your home. Of course a lot of people sell their homes without a realtor. Even more TRY to do so, and end up engaging a realtor when they realize it's not as easy as they expected. I believe that I once read something close to 3/4ths of the people who try to sell their homes themselves eventually end up dealing with a real estate broker. I have no idea what the percentage might be for boat sellers.

There are good brokers and there are bad brokers. A good broker is worth every penny that he (or she) will cost you. The trick, of course, is to weed out the bad ones.

I've done both with and without brokers.
Between the boats I've owned and sold, and the boats I've bought at auction and sold I've tried with and without brokers. If you've ever sold a good boat without a broker you realize how many tire kickers, cheapskates and knuckle heads are out there.
When I sell a boat myself I don't do individual showings anymore, I compile all the wannabees, send out a time and date for a showing and go from there, usually something like 1pm to 4pm on a Sunday if they want to see the boat. Usually about half the people show up, half of those who show up are tire kickers and maybe one or two are actually interested in purchasing the boat. It saves a lot of time and aggravation.
Last time around I used a broker, I can make more money in the time he spent selling my boat than I could save doing it myself.
I've also sold houses the same way, set up a viewing time and stick to it, individual showings are a waste of time, half want to see what the house looks like on the inside, some have nothing better to do and a couple are actually interested. I don't envy either brokers or real estate brokers, I wouldn't have the patience to do what they do.
A boat is worth what it is worth, it's very rare that you get a top quality specimen for the price of a junker, unless it's an extra ordernary circumstance.
The only bargains I've found were usually insurance or bank owned boats, and even then it's hit or miss, you better really know what you're looking at.

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

Then you will be selling on your own, as there are almost no brokers out there who will not insist on exclusive rights for the duration of the contract period.

Ok, what's the typical length of contract with boat broker? With real estate it's 1 or 2 months, after that I exclusively will decide what to do next. If buyer contacts me and asks if I would sell privately, guess what I would answer? Wait till contract ends, then you can buy it at discount if it won't be sold earlier.

I have experience of buying real estate through the broker (very bad experience, I should say), and I have some experience of selling real estate without broker (decided not to sell at the last moment, but that's another story ).
I will try to avoid brokers-dealers-realtors at all cost, because most of them scam-scam-scam.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by crankysailor

Or just .. u know .. don't get a broker

Sure that's an option but the post I was responding to suggested they were going to get a broker and somehow get them not to include the requirement that the broker gets the commission if the boat sells while under the duration of their brokerage agreement.

Any broker dumb enough to agree to these terms is too dumb to be my broker.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

Ok, what's the typical length of contract with boat broker? With real estate it's 1 or 2 months, after that I exclusively will decide what to do next. If buyer contacts me and asks if I would sell privately, guess what I would answer? Wait till contract ends, then you can buy it at discount if it won't be sold earlier.

I have experience of buying real estate through the broker (very bad experience, I should say), and I have some experience of selling real estate without broker (decided not to sell at the last moment, but that's another story ).
I will try to avoid brokers-dealers-realtors at all cost, because most of them scam-scam-scam.

What you propose is typically covered in the contract. If the buyer was found during the brokerage agreement, it doesn't matter when you close. A reasonable and fair thing. Otherwise dishonest people will do exactly what you suggest.

Of course, this is why most brokers don't provide direct contact between the owner and potential buyers because there are dishonest people who will do exactly what you propose.

You might get away with it because it's hard or the broker to police but that doesn't mean you aren't in the wrong.

I'm not crazy about brokers but if I employ one, I'm not going to be the dirt bag who tries to cheat them out of a legitimate commission.

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

You might get away with it because it's hard or the broker to police but that doesn't mean you aren't in the wrong.

Maybe you can point me where I'm wrong? Boat is listed on few different sites by few different brokers (as it seems). I didn't use any broker to find owner information. I didn't request to terminate contract and sell boat to me right away. Maybe you will tell me that broker will request his commission till end of his life or until boat sells (no matter who and when will sell it?).
It's exact kind of BS I'm trying to avoid by not dealing with brokers, dealers, realtors.

Actually, almost exact kind of thing happened to me when I was buying my first house. First realtor showed to me couple houses, than was trying to run scam with one of the houses for which he was listing realtor as well. Than he simply disappeared, letting me do search on my own (!!!). Ok, I found another house (found it myself!) and used another realtor to buy it. Guess what? First realtor calls me while I was already closing the sale, and gets angry, because I didn't use him! That piece of something wants his comission even when they didn't do sh*t to help me find property! Of course, I sent him to the right direction, but nevertheless it's such scam!
O, BTW, second realtor wasn't any better, and house that I bought was terrible (I was young and stupid back then).
Now, would I have any respect to brokers, dealers, realtors after such stories? No, thanks.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

Maybe you can point me where I'm wrong? Boat is listed on few different sites by few different brokers (as it seems).
Just because you see it on multiple sites, doesn't mean there are multiple brokers. No idea what contractual agreements were made on a particular boat. If you hire multiple brokers, you may get stuck paying commission multiple times but again, there likely is only 1 seller's broker.

I didn't use any broker to find owner information. I didn't request to terminate contract and sell boat to me right away. Maybe you will tell me that broker will request his commission till end of his life or until boat sells (no matter who and when will sell it?).
If you are the buyer, you don't pay the commission anyway.
To encourage theft (which is what you propose), is still unethical.

If you are the seller, it's a clear breach of contract and there really is no time limit. There is a statute of limitations but I believe the clock doesn't start until the broker finds out what you did, so it could be years later.
As I said though, hard for the broker to police but that doesn't mean it isn't essentially theft.

It's exact kind of BS I'm trying to avoid by not dealing with brokers, dealers, realtors.
Then don't deal with them but if you do deal with them,
don't try to steal from them or you are no better.

Actually, almost exact kind of thing happened to me when I was buying my first house. First realtor showed to me couple houses, than was trying to run scam with one of the houses for which he was listing realtor as well. Than he simply disappeared, letting me do search on my own (!!!). Ok, I found another house (found it myself!) and used another realtor to buy it. Guess what? First realtor calls me while I was already closing the sale, and gets angry, because I didn't use him! That piece of something wants his comission even when they didn't do sh*t to help me find property! Of course, I sent him to the right direction, but nevertheless it's such scam!
If it was a house, he showed you originally, he might have a claim. He was showing it on the presumption that you agreed to him as the buyer's broker if you buy that house.

If not, he can be angry but unless you signed a general buyer's agent agreement, he doesn't have anything.

O, BTW, second realtor wasn't any better, and house that I bought was terrible (I was young and stupid back then).
Now, would I have any respect to brokers, dealers, realtors after such stories? No, thanks.

It's OK, not to like brokers and to avoid using them but once you do use them, trying to cheat them out of their commission makes someone a thief.

Being angry about bad service in the past doesn't justify contract fraud in the present.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

Maybe you can point me where I'm wrong? Boat is listed on few different sites by few different brokers (as it seems). I didn't use any broker to find owner information. I didn't request to terminate contract and sell boat to me right away. Maybe you will tell me that broker will request his commission till end of his life or until boat sells (no matter who and when will sell it?).
It's exact kind of BS I'm trying to avoid by not dealing with brokers, dealers, realtors.

......s.

You'd have to read the actual Listing Agreement to know what the terms are. Here's an example from one found on the Interweb

. 6. To pay the same commission specified above if within one year of this agreement’s termination the YACHT is sold, donated,
traded, leased, or chartered (for more than one month) directly by the OWNER to any person or organization introduced to
the YACHT by the BROKER during the term of this agreement. If the OWNER enters into such an agreement for the sale,
donation, trade, lease or charter of the YACHT within one year of the termination of this agreement, the OWNER shall
supply the name of the acquiring party to the BROKER. If the BROKER does not within fourteen days of receiving such
notice claim his commission because the acquiring party was introduced to the YACHT as a result of his efforts, the
BROKER’s right to a commission shall cease.

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by Paul L

You'd have to read the actual Listing Agreement to know what the terms are. Here's an example from one found on the Interweb

. 6. To pay the same commission specified above if within one year of this agreement’s termination the YACHT is sold, donated,
traded, leased, or chartered (for more than one month) directly by the OWNER to any person or organization introduced to
the YACHT by the BROKER during the term of this agreement.

Ok, I don't see any problem here. I was NOT introduced to the seller by broker. In fact, I did not contact the broker, I don't even know his name, and he doesn't know my name or know about my existence at all.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

Ok, I don't see any problem here. I was NOT introduced to the seller by broker. In fact, I did not contact the broker, I don't even know his name, and he doesn't know my name or know about my existence at all.

Like I said that was an example clause. You'd have to read the actual Listing agreement in your case to determine the limitations.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

Ok, I don't see any problem here. I was NOT introduced to the seller by broker. In fact, I did not contact the broker, I don't even know his name, and he doesn't know my name or know about my existence at all.

1) As the buyer, it's not you paying the commission.
2) Where did you find the boat? Assuming it's from an ad the broker put out or even the sign on the boat...the broker introduced you.
3) Since you said, you purposely told them to cancel the brokerage contract and immediately bought afterward, it seems pretty clear you were encouraging the seller to violate the contract. They may not be able to come after you (probably can go after the seller) but still highly unethical to encourage contract fraud.

Again, if you don't like brokers, don't work with them but that doesn't give you license to cheat them.