Excuse me sir, don‘t wanna lowball but...

[canyonbat]

Originally Posted by crankysailor

Right Suijin. But that is the problem isn’t it? The information you refer to is a closely guarded secret .. if I could do value estimations with such precision I probably would not be mentioning my ponderings here :-)

So one „thinks“ or „believes“ based on anecdotal evidence or some common sense number crunching that a boat is worth something but seller asks for way more. You have no hard facts to found your gut feeling / anecdotally based calculations. So maybe I am wrong and the boat is priced right and I should just not bother / offend anyone. .. hmm... or is this how we play this game ... I know this is fairly open ended and kinda rhetorical .. but still wanted to get people’s thoughts on the matter.

If the boat truly is worth what you think it is,rather than the asking price, there should be other boats out there available at your price. If so, why worry? Make your offer and, if he refuses, go test your theory and buy one of the other boats. If there are no others, maybe there is a reason he is asking so much.

[getyourbone]

50% inflated...?

Let me understand...

Pretend time....

If asking is 100

Then you believe it is worth 66-67?...50% inflated of 67 is 100...just sayin’

So offer 75 and I bet survey can find an additional 7-8 as already mentioned. If not there are plenty of other boats out there or get over 7 grand and buy the frickin’ boat.

[scottgledhill]

Yes, many boats are overpriced. If you can offer a justification for a lower price it may help the seller separate the market value and his fond memories. I have watched several boats deteriorate as they sit in the yard because they are overpriced. I am currently cleaning out a boat so it can be donated. The owner originally asked 50K for a boat that was worth about 25 to 30 k. 10 years later it is hard to find a charity willing to take it. Make an offer at the level you are ready to purchase the boat. If the owner is realistic and your price is appropriate a deal can be done. Never be offended buy someone else's imagination.

[akprb]

Originally Posted by Suijin

If the offer you are contemplating reflects the true market value of the boat, include evidence to that effect. If you have access to what similar boats have sold for over the previous year, include that information. If there are other boats of the same make/model on the market near your offer price, include that information as well and any contextualizing data (extra or lack of equipment, etc.).

In other words, couch your offer in a reasoned explanation of how you arrived at it. If you're working with brokers they can actually be helpful in this respect as they probably know the true value of the boat.

If your offer is supported by facts it will reduce the likelihood of the owner feeling gratuitously lowballed and responding poorly.

This is the right answer. I’ve use this many times and if you approach it respectfully and ask the seller to help you solve this problem generally they will participate. Good luck :-)

[Nani Kai]

Originally Posted by crankysailor

So we are shopping for our next boat cause a new family member has pushed the step up issue a few years sooner than planned ;-) .. I do have a fairly good idea of what I want and have come across a boat that looks good on paper. However, asking price is simply off. I know everyone just says, offer half and go from there and I suspect most boats online are priced factoring in this phenomenon but on the other hand I just sold my boat and I know how I would have treated a low baller offering me half of asking price and let’s just say, no I would not have been „receptive“ to that...

But then being again on the buying side, some folks really are just asking for it...

Boats are tangled with emotion, but how does one „explain“ in a friendly manner to a seller that you like the boat, but the price is just 50% inflated (in your opinion ofcourse) without hurting anyone’s feelings?

Or am I right in assuming this is how the game is played and everyone really asks double of their real asking price ?

When negotiating to buy anything if you start by criticizing the very item you are interested in buying and then offer half you can't possibly expect the seller to be all smiles and rainbows. I seriously doubt that anyone's asking price is double what they expect to get or are willing to settle for. I have found it useful to start out by saying "I really like your XYZ but I don't have as much as you're asking. I don't want to offend you but would you consider $XXX?" Now you've been polite, you've expressed a willingness to buy, you've shown consideration for the seller's needs. Let the negotiations begin. If you've done your homework you already know what the item is worth. Then, as always with anything used and mechanical, you make an offer "subject to survey/mechanics inspection".

Negotiation in my book is not about challenging the storm head-on, it's more like navigating to a safe harbor.

[Tellie]

One of my favorite quotes attributed to one of these guys,... George Bernard Shaw, Winston Churchill, Groucho Marx, Mark Twain, W.C. Fields, Bertrand Russell, H.G. Wells, Woodrow Wilson.

"To put this in a different way, all our actions have a price. It is we who decide at what point we agree to be bought. As in the story of a conversation between a very sophisticated gentleman and a very respectable lady at a party. They are talking about prostitution, “Well,” says the gentleman, “just for the sake of our argument, suppose I offered you $1000—would you spend the night with me?” The lady, smiling coquettishly: “Who knows—I might very well!” The gentleman: “Now suppose I offer you $10 for the night?” The lady: “But what do you think I am?” The gentleman: “We’ve already established what you are. Now we’re just haggling over the price.”"

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by canyonbat

If the boat truly is worth what you think it is,rather than the asking price, there should be other boats out there available at your price. If so, why worry? Make your offer and, if he refuses, go test your theory and buy one of the other boats. If there are no others, maybe there is a reason he is asking so much.

All true. But with boats, like a lot of other items, emotions come into play.

Sometimes the seller isn't looking at the market. They're thinking about how much they paid for it, all the good times they had in it, how much money they put into "improvements," how much it "could be worth" with a little TLC, etc.

In many cases I saw, the boat WOULD have been worth the asking price - five years ago, before they started deferring maintenance. Now, with water leaking in, obsolete electronics, no maintenance on the mechanical systems, and mildew everywhere it's a different story.

Some sellers never get it, and the boat just rots away. Most others have a point where reality starts to sink in. Maybe after a just a couple of low-ball offers, maybe a lot more. But in the end they almost all have to re-calibrate to reality. If you're there when they reach that point, you'll get the boat you want at a fair price.

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

If you don't want to lowball, then don't...

This.

Shop for boats you can afford.

[hamburking]

Dear OverPricedBoatSeller,

I have read and re-read your ad many times. I've read online reviews of that model, and researched the sailing characteristics. I've studies every picture you posted. It looks like a fine boat, exactly the boat I've been seeking for my family. Your pride of ownership is apparent.

The features of your boat match and exceed my wish list. In particular, that engine gets great reviews online, and that galley is excellent.

I would love to buy your boat. However, your current asking price exceeds my budget. My online research tells me that I might be able to buy a similar boat for substantially less money if I'm patient and a bit lucky. I understand that someone may purchase your boat at your asking price at any time. But, I have no idea of your situation or your willingness to consider a lower offer. To be clear, I am very interested in your boat, but not at the current asking price. I have no interest in insulting you with a low offer. And I apologize in advance if you find this message offensive in any way. Perhaps some time in the future, if your boat has not sold already, you might consider a lower price...in which case I would be very happy to hear from you.

FWIW, I'm a serious sailor. We just sold our previous boat because of our expanding family. And while I cannot offer you the dollars you want, perhaps there is some value knowing that your boat will become the centre of my family's sailing adventures, and I would do my best to sail your boat well.

Good luck with the sale of your boat.

Fair Winds,

PoliteLowBallBuyer

[Puget Dan]

Originally Posted by rbk

Offer 25% less and see what the survey reveals. If he’s not willing to go down that much it’s not worth pursuing. If the survey reveals a bunch and has a suggested current price which most do, that will probably susbstantiate your case for a lower asking price. Sometimes people need to see a summary of the issues to realize they’re off base.

I agree, offer 25 % less and then the survey will tell. Also November -January is lowball offer time. Five years ago we bought or trimaran with This strategy .

[NevisDog]

Well, I know its just one example but selling broker laughed at our offer and told us seller already had a higher offer he had rejected. A week or so later broker was phoning us asking if our offer still stood. I'm sure there may be some honest brokers out there but most just want to maximise their commission - that's their job. If they can do it by lying to you and telling you your offer is laughable, then that's what some will do. If you seem like a mug, they'll likely treat you as a mug.

No need to lowball, just offer what the boat is worth to you, stating the offer price is of course subject to survey (it will naturally reduce when the surveyor uncovers some hidden faults, as he invariably will).

So many different types of seller out there - some want to rip you off if they can and ask way too much and they know it, some just want a fair price, some even advertise the boat at a fair price so they don't want silly offers, then some are desperately keen to sell and will accept a silly offer. You'll soon learn what type of seller/broker he is when you offer what seems reasonable to you.

Wife and I just decided we would not deal with any of the brokers who demonstrated less than total honesty (that was the majority), so their clients lost out.

[Ms J-37]

Exactly! I agree. I diagree strongly with those who've agreed with "offer half, etc."

[Classicsailboat]

You have to establish a relationship of mutual trust and respect, see the the boat, express an interest, don’t make an offer but get a feel for how flexible the seller is, be patient, continue to research, Your interest may change a lot over time and nobody is going to pay asking price, if you lose the boat there are a lot more out there.

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by crankysailor

I think it is more than being afraid of making people grumpy.. it is kind of a seamanship thing I suppose. I just feel dirty lowballing. Like.. gentlemen shouldn’t do that or something. But this gentleman doesn’t want to be a sucker that pays too much either :-)

I think you are playing mind games with yourself. Look, just be straightforward. Here is my approach. I say, (sellers name) look, I am not saying that your boat isn’t worth what you are asking for it, I am just saying $.......... is what I am willing and able to pay.
They are going to say yes or no. If they are offended, that’s their problem. You have said nothing that should have insulted him.

[Terra Nova]

I treat all low-ballers the same. They do not even warrant a response from me.