Excuse me sir, don‘t wanna lowball but...

[buzzstar]

Does it not depend upon many, many factors, including those motivating both the buyer and the seller, and the strength of any given factor on the whole. The forgoing sounds like gobbledy gook until you think about it.

The extreme example I remember most is a failed attempt to even discuss an outrageous asking price, in the form of "replacement cost" as provided by a surveyor to the seller, a widow, who only knew what the surveyor said and that her husband has loved the boat. I am not 100% sure, but I do not think it ever sold (this was over 10 years ago), and it has recently reappeared on the market at an almost reasonable price for back then, but unfortunately also much deteriorated, or dilapidated. I think the seller is another family member, perhaps a son. Sad. Motivation matters.

[SKG56]

In my case I knew that the boat was worth the asking price, I had been looking at the W32 for some years and this one was the one, so I shaved 2k off the asking price and it was accepted, a friend suggested that I knock 5k off, I just didn't want to do that knowing that this was a fair deal for the both of us

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by brownoarsman

Because don't ask, don't get.

I'm seeing this as I shop for a house now. Realtors will list a house $200k above market, and then drop it $20-$50k every week until some poor guy catches the falling knife.

What I do with my agent is we send an offer with a couple things:
A handful of comps that clearly point to a more realistic asking price
A list of things that we observed that require knocking the price down.

We keep it short and sweet, and clearly know what we're doing and are taken seriously, and that opened negotiations. The sellers generally stayed at a less so but still inflated price, so I walked. Three out of four houses I've made offers on have sold for exactly what I offered, four months after I first made it, (to someone else unfortunately). At least I'm doing a service to the rest of the buying public.

The other explanation is as the OP stated. Especially on Craigslist, people put in a buffer knowing people are going to offer less than asking as a matter of price.

And so from my point of view you have learned that either the seller is a nut (he should be able to judge fair value) or there is much to knock off and you are buying a project boat. (You wouldn't find anything on boats I have sold). Remember that many things are a "condition of age" and not something that you can properly knock off for after your offer. You should have looked closely. Survey items are are for things that were not obvious when you looked at it prior to survey. Bad paint, mold, and even old sails and rigging don't count if they were visible. If the condition of hidden things matches the description and is similar to the visible parts, you may have no grounds. You did make a deposit, and they are not always returned.

As one poster said, you made a commencement to buy at the offered price. If the boat looked old, you didn't really expect a perfect motor or hull, did you?

So buy a good boat, smaller if it must be, and stop bottom feeding.

[mfw]

Cash is king when you make an offer. Do your research. Find out why they are selling. Time on the market there is a back story sometimes that can help shed some light on the seller's situation. Price is a supply and demand curve crossing.

[inet-projects]

I Spent a day and made up a spreadsheet with all the boats, Make Model & Year & if was in Good Bad or Ugly Shape and a rough guide to equipment, it helped me come to the price I was willing to pay, It covered Turkey, Croatia, England & Italy.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

That said, I have made what might be considered low-ball offers when buying. I always explained that there was no insult intended with my offer, and I would fully understand if the seller ignored me, or rejected the offer outright. “But I really love your boat, and this is the best I can do…”

IOW, be kind. Acknowledge you are offering way lower than the seller thinks his boat is worth, and be willing to be rejected. If you go in contrite then you may open up negotiations.

At this point I wouldn’t try and argue that the seller has over-priced the boat … that can come next if need be. Right now you just want to get him/her talking.

This is what I was going to say.

Trying to make the seller believe their "Baby" is not worth as much as they think by describing all her faults in technical detail will be taken as insulting by many emotional sellers (and a large percentage are emotional).

If you tell them how much you love their "Baby", they may or may not accept but you have put it in terms that match their feelings.

Later on if they accept and you survey, you can get into factual discussion of the costs of what is wrong.

Absolutely nothing wrong with making a low offer. If they don't like it, they don't have to accept it but don't be insulting about it. More importantly, the idea that you can look up and know the "correct" price or there is a standard percentage you can take off is silly with large cruising boats. There simply aren't enough out there to get an accurate price accounting for age, condition, add-ons, etc...

Just a side note on this: Sold a boat a few years back. The guy was downright insulting. I didn't let that scuttle the sale. But, there was some equipment not specifically listed that I was planning to throw in...It didn't get thrown in. You really gain nothing by being insulting.

[messias]

I sold my last boat way over the market price because:

It had absolutely nothing wrong with it, had an extensive (exhaustive) refit made, perfect equipment in every way and I was happy to keep it if it would not sell. It sold to a non-arguing buyer because...well, he just wanted it. Period.

Bought my new (to me) boat 50% off the asking price, because like the OP, I saw a boat that would fit my requirements like a glove, but the asking price was just too much for me (not that the boat was not worth it!)...
Anyway, I just contacted the seller and told him (actually,her) what my budget was and that I was aware that my offer would probably not come close to what she had in mind.
It turned out that she did not had a price in mind... she just wanted to get rid of it -fast- because of some complicated family issues. I got the boat for my offer.

You´d be surprised on how many different reasons people actually sell boats. Some are not trying to upgrade/downgrade/whatever. Just life changes.

Make your offer respectfully... you may have a surprise.

[AKA-None]

How about making a reasonable offer?

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

How about making a reasonable offer?

If I offer 50% of the asking price and they accept, it was a "reasonable offer".

If I offer full asking price and they were willing to accept a 50% discount, I paid double what would have been a "reasonable offer".

The fact is there is no such thing as a universal "reasonable offer".

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by messias

I sold my last boat way over the market price because:

It had absolutely nothing wrong with it, had an extensive (exhaustive) refit made, perfect equipment in every way and I was happy to keep it if it would not sell. It sold to a non-arguing buyer because...well, he just wanted it. Period.

Then you didn't sell it "over the market price." The "market price" is what a willing and informed buyer, and a willing and informed seller, agree to.

You may have sold it for more than most boats of that age and type were going for, but your sale is the veritable definition of "market price" -- unless, of course, the buyer was just ignorant, and didn't have a clue what the boat was really worth. In that case, he would not have been an "informed" buyer. It doesn't sound like that was the case, though.

Regardless of that, I will agree with those who say that, if you offer a fair price for the boat, then you are not "low-balling," not matter how much the seller may think that you are. If he is delusional about the real value of his boat, that is his problem, not yours. And if he is offended by your offer, that is also his problem, not yours.

[Mike OReilly]

Offer what the boat is worth to you. Don’t play mind games. Don’t try and outsmart the market. In most cases cruising boats don’t have a functioning market. Too few boats, too many different areas, too much variation.

Offer what the boat is worth to you. If it’s significantly below the asking price, either wait for the price to come down, or go in achnowledging that your offer is significantly below, and be prepared to be rejected or ignored (and possibly burning this sale permanently).

Cruising boats are often emotional items. Most owners have a lot of themselves wrapped up in their boats. To treat them as just another widge-sale is a mistake. Some sellers will be dispassionate. Most won’t be.

[Oldlaxer1]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Offer what the boat is worth to you. Don’t play mind games. Don’t try and outsmart the market. In most cases cruising boats don’t have a functioning market. Too few boats, too many different areas, too much variation.

Offer what the boat is worth to you. If it’s significantly below the asking price, either wait for the price to come down, or go in achnowledging that your offer is significantly below, and be prepared to be rejected or ignored (and possibly burning this sale permanently).

Cruising boats are often emotional items. Most owners have a lot of themselves wrapped up in their boats. To treat them as just another widge-sale is a mistake. Some sellers will be dispassionate. Most won’t be.

When going in "low" I try to be respectful as Mike points out. Tell him you love it but you have limited resources. I use the phrase, "would you entertain an offer of...."
It seems to at least help get a reply and perhaps a counter offer.

[CarlF]

I never understand this concept of the buyer being “offended”. But I do get annoyed at buyers who think they are all smarter than the seller. Especially if that seller is me.

I’ve sold six boats and each time got a few bottom feeder offers. I wasn’t the least bit offended. But I had no interest in listening to some guy tell me why my price was wrong and their price was right. Why should I believe anything they say since they have an obvious bias? It’s also amazingly arrogant to claim that you know more about my boat than me.

While I think the low ball offer (50%) can be a good strategy with boats in tough shape, I never use it when buying. That’s because I only buy (and own) boats that have been scrupiliously maintained(and loved). I insist on having a phone call with the PO before making an offer — to make sure of this.

When selling boats, I pick an asking price about 10% above what I want. That’s because everyone wants to haggle a little and I’m looking for a “win-win” deal. When an offer comes in, I only counter if the offer is 75% or more of asking. That’s because negotiations usually end up about in the middle. So the mid point is around 87%-92%. Surveys are a non event for me as I discuss any issues with the buyer before the offer.

If the boat doesn’t sell in three months, I drop the price. The market has shown my price was wrong. That’s business. I also switch brokers. I tell the broker about this upfront. It seems to motivate them.

So to the OP, don’t worry about insulting the seller but don’t be so arrogant as to think the seller is “delusional” if he says “thanks but no thanks”. And if you still want the boat, just make a higher offer. If the seller is like me, I know that you are are just trying the internet 50% offer gambit. I won’t hold it against you if you make a better offer.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by CarlF

... I do get annoyed at buyers who think they are all smarter than the seller. Especially if that seller is me.

I’ve sold six boats and each time got a few bottom feeder offers. I wasn’t the least bit offended. But I had no interest in listening to some guy tell me why my price was wrong and their price was right. Why should I believe anything they say since they have an obvious bias? It’s also amazingly arrogant to claim that you know more about my boat than me. ...

THIS!

Drives me nuts to read this constant theme of “I know better than the seller what his/her boat is worth…”. When I sold my last boat I learned pretty quick to ignore these arrogant tire-kickers. The only people these folks are fooling are themselves.

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Send me a pm with your email address, year and model of boat you are interested in and I will send you a pdf of the solboats.com data on actual selling prices.

This is the most valuable information on the thread. If you can get a little more info like age, condition, days on market & list price that would also be helpful. The more you look the more you'll realize how important condition is.

The problem with boats is that there are not always enough sales of a specific model to develop a reliable statistical analysis. The median sale price would normally represent the market value of that model in average condition and the upper range would represent the market value of boats in better condition.

This is all a lot easier if you are represented by a Broker as it's the Broker's job to know the market value of any boat you are interested in.