Excuse me sir, don‘t wanna lowball but...

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Tia Bu

...By the way, as a seller, I hate when people "fish" for a price reduction in a conversation. Make me a real offer, with a signed contract and earnest money. I'll respect it and respond. Selling boats is not easy. A real offer is rare and something you pay attention to, in my experience.

I’d forgotten about this one. Yes … drove me nuts when I’d have a potential buyer ask some variation of: “what kind of discount will you give me? Or, “what is your lowest price?”

My answer: 'My price is as listed. Make me an offer.' If the offer is serious I'll likely counter-offer. Then we’ll negotiate.

Until the offer comes, these folks are just interested potential buyers. I’m not going to knee-cap my negotiating position before we begin.

[sailorboy1]

Maybe people should just focus on what s boat worth, to them! All this % of asking is crap. It is reasonable to expect to pay what a boat is worth? To you!

[Woodland Hills]

Six pages and the best response was #2 or #3: offer 75%, get a survey and use that to get the price down some more. You will probably end up at 50% to 60% of the asking price when all is said and done and if there is nothing wrong with the survey, 25% off of ask is fair to all concerned.......

[john61ct]

Unless the ask was (more than) fair to start with.

Rare I know, but happens.

In that context a level-headed seller may laugh at your lowball, but plenty will just walk and refuse to deal further.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I’d forgotten about this one. Yes … drove me nuts when I’d have a potential buyer ask some variation of: “what kind of discount will you give me? Or, “what is your lowest price?”

My answer: 'My price is as listed. Make me an offer.' If the offer is serious I'll likely counter-offer. Then we’ll negotiate.

Until the offer comes, these folks are just interested potential buyers. I’m not going to knee-cap my negotiating position before we begin.

That is annoying. When we were selling our boat, a lady emailed me, having never seen our boat and asked if we would take x dollars for it. I emailed her back and asked if she were making an offer (which I would have considered) , and she said, no, She just wanted to know if we would sell it for that. I told her to go away and quit bothering me.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by buzzstar

I must admit, I disagree. Everything each party knows (or sometimes does not know) and considers relevant, and is probably material, goes into the equation. The parties sort things in personal priority order, and then with each other in what may be an abrupt or an ongoing process. Probably the only things that do not matter are thing neither considers relevant or material, and things the individuals do not know they do not know. We each do it in our own way, and while it may sound complicated, humans do not usually feel it is.

Sort of like your twelve year old half blind cat that is worth a million dollars to you, regardless of what anyone else will pay for it? That's fine, as long as you don't think it's worth a million dollars to anyone else.

[Hobie_ind]

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

Six pages and the best response was #2 or #3: offer 75%, get a survey and use that to get the price down some more. You will probably end up at 50% to 60% of the asking price when all is said and done and if there is nothing wrong with the survey, 25% off of ask is fair to all concerned.......

I'd respectfully disagree. It all depends on the boat. For popular manufacturers and models, there's quite often considerable data to be had on what similarly equipped boats are selling for that is useful to sellers and buyers if it's used.

When we sold our Super Maramu in Australia, we looked at SoldBoat data globally for the previous 6 months (and actually a year back) to understand what boats of a similar year were selling for. Then we tried to make an assessment of relative condition (rigging replacements, engine/generator hours or upgrades, etc.). As no Super Maramu's had sold in Australia or NZ in the past 6 months, we then looked at a few other comparable boats that had to get a sense of what the Australia 'premium' was compared to other areas (Caribbean, Med, Florida).

After evaluating that, we set the list price accordingly. It was noticeably lower than a Super Maramu in Australia and two in NZ that had all been listed for almost a year. Another 2001 Super Maramu listed separately at almost the same time, also lower than the 3 in the general area. I sold ours in about 3 weeks for 95% of list (and the broker was working with another buyer on a backup offer around the time of the survey). I also understood the 2001 also sold very quickly for a similar %'ge of asking. I had also been very complete in describing condition and prepped the boat well so the only negotiations we had on survey was an adjustment for a hot water heater that started leaking the day before the survey.

Two friends who were convinced their boats (also common manufacturers and models that had data available) were worth way more than the above analysis still have their boats for sale almost a year later and after 2-3 price reductions.

In our case, I believe we were realistic in assessing the market and as such a 50% offer probably wouldn't have even gotten a response from me and 75% wouldn't have even got a counter offer, just a polite 'Declined', as I had other serious buyers interested.

Again, as usual, blanket generalizations with respect to boats are meaningless, but seem to be surprisingly common on CruisersForum.

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by Group9

Sort of like your twelve year old half blind cat that is worth a million dollars to you, regardless of what anyone else will pay for it? That's fine, as long as you don't think it's worth a million dollars to anyone else.

My kitty is not for sale. Period. Already sold my boat. BTW, what is wrong with thinking a blind cat is worth a million dollars? It does not mean it is for sale at any price even if you agree on the worth. You need to return to the often forgotten most basic element of a transaction. A willing seller, although sometimes the interested buyer creates the willingness.

[jbinbi]

Originally Posted by brownoarsman

Because don't ask, don't get.

I'm seeing this as I shop for a house now. Realtors will list a house $200k above market, and then drop it $20-$50k every week until some poor guy catches the falling knife.

What I do with my agent is we send an offer with a couple things:
A handful of comps that clearly point to a more realistic asking price
A list of things that we observed that require knocking the price down.

We keep it short and sweet, and clearly know what we're doing and are taken seriously, and that opened negotiations. The sellers generally stayed at a less so but still inflated price, so I walked. Three out of four houses I've made offers on have sold for exactly what I offered, four months after I first made it, (to someone else unfortunately). At least I'm doing a service to the rest of the buying public.

The other explanation is as the OP stated. Especially on Craigslist, people put in a buffer knowing people are going to offer less than asking as a matter of price.

Great stuff, brownoarsman. If you are selling something, you shouldn't be involved emotionally, you should be looking at it as a financial transaction. Notice I said should....

If I want $100, and you offer $50, I don't take it personally. I can not counter, but I might counter at $98. You now know I am not moving very much from the $100. If you counter my 98 with 52, it is not going anywhere. If you counter at 85, I might come down a bit more to make the deal.

BTW, if you have solid comps, the saying goes, that the first offer is usually the best one.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

IT, if you can’t understand the concept of a seller being offended by a low-ball offer, then I gently suggest you don’t understand human nature very well. In fact, there is plenty of psychological and economic research into this topic. These studies clearly show just how emotional we humans are when it comes to these supposedly dispassionate transactions — even to the point of having the seller harming themselves in the face of a percieved low-ball offer from the buyer.

There are some, like you, who can remain unemotional in these situations, but know that you are unusual. Might mean you can get a better deal out of these transactions.

IMO getting emotional over a freaking boat is irrational. But that's me. I look at the people who get emotionally attached to a thing, whatever it is, the way I look at people who get emotionally attached to their pet while neglecting well being of their children, parents, siblings, etc.

In case of a boat I view such attachment to a non living item as a form of sickness, not normal state of affairs. Like "getting attached" to a comfortable shoe or a beloved plush chair. It is still a thing, after all said and done. Not even a living thing like a pet.

[CascadeThumper]

You have described the typical house deal. Offer and counteroffer with end result an agreement a little (maybe a lot) below asking price. Currently, the Seattle market does not use that model for houses. There is an asking price, potential buyers submit bids, the one willing to spend the most $$ wins. Often exceeding $100,000.00 above asking price. The negotiation is not downward, but upward. Boats would follow this model, too if there were no inventory and big demand. But a home is kinda essential (especially soggy chilly Seattle) and a boat is kinda a luxury. In addition, high priced homes eat disposable income leaving less for boat/moorage/insurance/fuel. Maybe that's why boat prices in the PNW seem pretty flat or worse. Some local 'cult' brands fare a little better. I have been following 2 nice boats for a couple of years. The price keeps falling. At some point I will make a low offer on one of them. If i get rejected I will try #2. If I can't get a really sweet deal, I still own a very nice 34
That's paid for. A very successful and well respected businessman once gave me some advice: if you can't steal it don't buy it. I suspect his advice goes double for luxury items. YMMV

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

...In case of a boat I view such attachment to a non living item as a form of sickness, not normal state of affairs. Like "getting attached" to a comfortable shoe or a beloved plush chair. It is still a thing, after all said and done. Not even a living thing like a pet.

I take reality for what it is, not what I think it should be. It's normal for people to get attached to things. Whether you define this as a sickness is up to you. But please realize it is you that is abnormal in this regard.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I take reality for what it is, not what I think it should be. It's normal for people to get attached to things. Whether you define this as a sickness is up to you. But please realize it is you that is abnormal in this regard.

I understand that irrationality is a part of human nature. Does not make it "normal" part of it, though. You actually have it upside down.

[boden36]

It really depends on the boat and the situation and how much you want it.
We recently bought a boat. When it was first advertised at around 250,000 I looked at the surveys and after establishing my level of expertise with the broker, suggested it would be worth about half of asking. I was genuine in this belief, not just taking a position.
At that stage negotiations ceased. During the course of a year, the boat remained on the market. At one stage the broker contracted me again with a reduced price but I declined.
After about a year I offered less than a third of original asking, and we settled on just a little over a third.
Significant factors:
I did not care whether I bought it or not.
The boat's presentation was appalling.
The seller had not used the boat for three years, could not use it, and needed to sell.

When I inspected the boat I was happy with her basic condition, and so was the surveyor we employed.
Bear in mind, that at any time during the year someone else could have bought the boat so there was a significant risk factor involved.
I think the key factor was that I was indifferent.

Regards,
Richard.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

I understand that irrationality is a part of human nature. Does not make it "normal" part of it, though. You actually have it upside down.

If most people behave in a certain way that, by definition, is "normal."

Humans behave in all sorts of irrational ways. From our inability to see certain spacial realities (often called visual illusions) to our predictably irrational behaviour around social and economic interactions, homo sapien behaviour is fascinatingly irrational much of the time.

I encourage you to explore the vast and growing literature on the subject. You may be sueprised (or dismayed) at how irrational we are as a species.