Ferro Cement Hulls ?

[gordonmca]

I have been keeping an eye on this thread for some time and thought I would share some experiences, rather than lurk!
My interest in ferro boats was sparked some years ago when a 40' ferro Endurance came on the market near my home on the West coast of Scotland. She was professionally built by Winboats but having just started restoring my Hillyard I wasn't in a position to take her on, the main problem being her teak decks which needed complete replacement. Ironically her hull was the least of her problems.
Three years ago I became aware of another ferro for sale in the same yard as I was refitting the Hillyard (again!). Merlin of Clyde was built under John Samson supervision by Rolls Royce apprentices at Hillington in Scotland. She looked completely out of my league, dwarfing every other boat on the hard. She was bought by an acquaintance of mine on a punt and I don't believe he would mind me saying it was a real steal. Merlin is a real head turner and despite her size, 48' LOA, is sailed regularly by a couple alone.
Purely by chance I came across another Samson on Ebay last December. She had been semi abandoned in Liverpool where I first saw her after vandals had been at work. The hull was basically sound with one area of damage to the stem and several small areas of cosmetic damage around deck level. The engine (Yanmar 3QM30) was seized and, in my opinion, underpower for a 14 ton + boat. Nevertheless I made an offer and in early February I had her road-hauled to Scotland:

She was described as a 36' Sea-Breeze* (I have doubts) 42' LOA built in Galveston, Texas. She was sailed across the pond in about 1996/7 and ended up in Le Havre where she was sold. For seven years she was in Antwerp before being taken to Liverpool.
I have put a new 46 hp engine in her and hope to get her in the water before long to continue the refurb at leisure.
If any Samson owners out there care to swap notes or comment on the description* I would be pleased to hear from you.

[James S]

Welcome to the forum gordonmca, and all the best with your new boat.

[MattDamon2927]

Hi GordonMCA,

I am near Elgin, up in the Moray Firth and I have recently purchased a Samson C Deuce ferro too. It would be great to get some info on yours and swap some notes (see some of my last posts). Where are you working on her?

James

[FERROWNER2010]

Hi guys , have been reading as much as possible on ferro boats on the forum and have Colin brooks book on order.

Can anyone recomend a place in Sydney Australia where I can buy the sand and cement to start fixing my new ferro boat. I am very competant with wooden boat repairs and have done about 1500 hours including major repairs so far on my marine ply boat which is geting near being completed - but ferro is another world.

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I picked up a 17 ton monster, its a 13.4 metre Hartley Fujian and it has some rust near the anchor well. The rust has started on the inside where the anchor was left in with sea water and a drain hole was apparently blocked. Plan on fixing inside the anchor well first and fibre galssing it all so it can not get dmagaed by the anchor in the future.

Can i mix west system epoxy with saltless sand to repair small areas?

Bunnings in Australia sell Sydney sand which is washed sand, it is $6 per 20KG, is this ok to use?

Any pointers would be great, this is my first ferro boat.

Also what is the best rust treater that can be easily found i Aus.

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Here is a pic, sorry i can ot embed it for some reason.

Any ideas of shops that sell ferro cement?


I have read in this thread that epoxy expands at a different rate from concrete, does this mean i can full some small holes woth epoxy and washed sand?

Thanks everyone if you have any ideas.

Tim

[cyaght]

Hi gordonmca, what you have, I think, is a Samson C-Quence. If you go to the Hartley and Brookes website and look under Samson plans, you will see an outline drawing which resembles your hull and bow shape. I have one myself which I am in the process of rebuilding. I got a copy of the study plans and am awaiting the full plans to help with the restoration. I would be interested to see some photos of your interior and also rigging as I have th e rig off at the moment and bought it that way. Hope this helps.
Regards, Cy.

[smallyachts]

There is a better material for repair. It is called Fer-A-Lite. Due to restrictions I apparently cannot post the website here. But if you go on and google Fer-A-Lite or SmallYachts for the addresses it will take you there.

Or PM me I will get you the information.

[wolfaroo]

hi, hope you're all well... im still busy fixing the hole in my port side and will endeavour to upload photos of my progress in the future - progress is finally being made though!

I have just spent the last 6 hours phoning practically every marine insurance broker/underwriter in the UK to insure my ferro boat but have so far failed to find cover. It seems the last companies who have previously insured ferro boats have very recently stopped covering them too. I am now following a lead for a company in France but, in the meantime, thought I would ask fellow owners on here if any of you have insured your boat in Europe within the last 12 months, and/or can you recommend any insurance providers?

Thanks,
Neal

[waterworldrob]

Haha you guys crack me up. I have lived on rotten wood boats, smelly (and very weak) FRP boats and have been aboard my Benford Ferro now for 13 years. I work on boats for a living, and it is hilarious to listen to the "Blister Boys" with their boats surrounded by 440V. heaters trying to dry out the saturated hulls telling me how my boat won't float. She is 46 LOD andweighs 45,000 lbs, the same as designed in FRP would weigh. Unless the FRP was saturated, as they can be. Maintanence is simple, it's dry and quiet inside. What people don't talk about is how the nice FC boats are mistaken as FRP or wood so only the ugly homebuilts are obvious.
I work on wood boats and know exactly what it costs to keep them up, I'll never own another. Crashing into a deadhead frightens me from FRP, they are paper-thin. If I were to build it would be steel today.
A friend in NZ lost his(wood) boat in a cyclone, all were dragged into the rocks and wasted. Only one boat survived, a Hartley 34 and he boght it on the spot from the owner and afte repainting the scratched hull has been sailing since. That was 25 years ago.
Cheers, fair winds all.

[jacquie21670]

Hi FERROWNER2010,
You probably can't get fer-a-lite here in Australia. We have a 53 ft Samson C Breeze that was built of ferro lite. We have repaired holes with a product made by sika (the sikaflex people) called epoxy cement. But this is our third ferro boat and we have used it previously as well on straight ferro cement hulls. It is available at Bretts Hardware and some Bunnings stores. It is basically the fer-a-lite product anyway. It is better than mixing sand (which isnt really required anyway) and you will get a better finish. As Colin Brookes, the partner fo Richard Hartley, says epoxy is the best repair material for ferro hulls and sticks to ferro like S*** to a blanket. If you search for "world of ferro boats', which is Colin's website there is substantial information on repairing ferro boats on the site.

Originally Posted by FERROWNER2010

Hi guys , have been reading as much as possible on ferro boats on the forum and have Colin brooks book on order.

Can anyone recomend a place in Sydney Australia where I can buy the sand and cement to start fixing my new ferro boat. I am very competant with wooden boat repairs and have done about 1500 hours including major repairs so far on my marine ply boat which is geting near being completed - but ferro is another world.

FreeImageHosting.net Hosting Service

I picked up a 17 ton monster, its a 13.4 metre Hartley Fujian and it has some rust near the anchor well. The rust has started on the inside where the anchor was left in with sea water and a drain hole was apparently blocked. Plan on fixing inside the anchor well first and fibre galssing it all so it can not get dmagaed by the anchor in the future.

Can i mix west system epoxy with saltless sand to repair small areas?

Bunnings in Australia sell Sydney sand which is washed sand, it is $6 per 20KG, is this ok to use?

Any pointers would be great, this is my first ferro boat.

Also what is the best rust treater that can be easily found i Aus.

FreeImageHosting.net Hosting Service

Here is a pic, sorry i can ot embed it for some reason.

Any ideas of shops that sell ferro cement?


I have read in this thread that epoxy expands at a different rate from concrete, does this mean i can full some small holes woth epoxy and washed sand?

Thanks everyone if you have any ideas.

Tim

[smallyachts]

FYI

We have been shipping Fer-A-Lite to Australia now for the past 3 years. We know of one boat being completed with the product as well as several that have been repaired.

Freight costs are a little steep, but we will eventually find a distributor in AUS to stock the bulk inert material that should be available locally which will greatly reduce the freight charges.

You can google Fer-A-Lite or Smallyachts to get contact, ordering and shipping information.

Tim, we are researching to see what the product name is marketed under in AUS for the rust preventative you have requested.

jacquie21670 - We would be interested in getting more info on your Fer-A-Lite boat to update our records. Date and place built, original builder etc.... We have a pretty good list of pedigrees of the boats that were built when Platt Monfort was producing the material prior to our purchase of the company.

[Dockhead]

Jeff, are you writing a book? If not, you should be -- I would buy it. I am dazzled by the depth of your knowledge and the high quality of your writing.

[jacquie21670]

Hi Smallboats, that is interesting news and I'm pleased that there is a sufficient market for these products in Aus.

Our boat is called Merlin and she was built in Taren Point is Sydney. The builder was a professional employed at a building yard, but Merlin was his own boat. He didnt ever get to sail her though, as he passed away shortly after she was launched. She was layed up in 1988 but not launched until 2001. We didnt know she was ferro lite when we bought her, but have since found out through adding fittings and an unfortunate meeting with the corner of the pier, that her hull is an epoxy cement mix. We are berthed in Brisbane River and regularly deal with 8 knot tides during docking.

We have a cored sample of her hull. Her frame is stainless steel!! She weighs 27 tonne at 53 foot and being a Samson design is 14.5 foot wide. So she really is quite light. I have the builders name stored away in some paper work, and am happy to dig it out if you're interested.

[smallyachts]

Is it Ferro lite or Fer-A-Lite?

Ferro lite is a mix of cement and epoxy with some short glass fibers thrown in, Fer-A-Lite contains no cement and is a mix of Polyester boat resin and several types of e-glass, industrial grade perlite and various polyester and mineral fibers.

If you can find the name of the original builder, I will check the records to see if I can tie your hull to a shipment of Fer-A-Lite from Platt's records that I have.

The good news is that Fer-A-Lite can be used to repair ferro-cement, Ferro Lite and Fer-A-Lite hulls, Ferro cement will not stick to Fer-A-Lite, but Fer-A-Lite sticks to anything that it touches short of teflon, including ferro cement.

With a stainless armature, if it is Fer-A-Lite that is the plastering material you have an ice breaker capable hull.

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by jacquie21670

. . . Our boat is called Merlin and she was built in Taren Point is Sydney. The builder was a professional employed at a building yard, but Merlin was his own boat. . . .
We have a cored sample of her hull. Her frame is stainless steel!! . . .

"frame"???? Are you talking about the mesh of metal buried inside the F.C. hull? If so, Stainless steel is the worst thing that could be used. Regular iron will rust but the core will remain solid until rust eats everything away. Stainless steel on the other hand needs constant contact with oxygen in the atmosphere. In the presence of water with no oxygen (air) stainless steel develops "intragranular corrision" which a process whereby the individual "grains" of the stainless lose adhesion to each other. When quarter inch thick stainless chainplates have advanced intragranular corrosion you can stab a screwdriver completely through the metal. They can be snapped in half by normal arm power. You do not bury stainless steel in anyplace that water may get to it without the metal having access to plenty of air(oxygen).

[MattDamon2927]

Hi There,

Just saw your post and have been through the whole problem myself with ferro insurance in the UK. You can find ferro insurance through Lloyds, as long as you dont go further than the Isle of Wight; or worldwide insurance as long as you dont have a ferro boat! After weeks of searching I had an excellent Dutch company reccommended to me, details below. They insured my Ferro Samson 54 for me, for cruising all of the West Coast, Panama, Central America and the East Coast, Fully Comp with much more, for a very fair price. Yours will be considerably less I would imagine if you are on a smaller boat in the Med. I hope this helps - let me know how you get on.
James
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