Ferro Cement Hulls ?

[banyandah]

Looks like the Queenslander, but don't know what her draught would be if bilge keel. The south seas 38' full keel draws 5'9" - 6'0" And I think the bilge keel version draws 4'3" Hope that helps

[BillAU]

Thanks for your views Jack. After doing a full search on the Hartley site (Hartley do not/no-longer, list a Queenslander on their list of available boat plans) I believe the pictured yacht is a Tahitian 33 as displayed at Hartley but...I could be wrong. The set-up below deck looks like a Hartley 32. I guess I would need to visit the boat and have a good look at her on the hard, do some checking and measuring and then try and decide just what she is. The bloke who now owns her does not have her plans and knows little about the boat.

[banyandah]

Kind of think the crowd running Hartley have simplified the names of their designs. When Banyandah was built in '73, Hartley offered three variations of the same hull shape in a 32' (Queenslander) 38' South Seas and 45' (Tahitian), all had flared bows, full forefoot, long keel with the rudder hung from it. Google 'Hartley Queenslander' and you see a few then compare them to what's now called the Tahitian 32. Hartley offered three keel designs. Shallow, deep, bilge. Personnally, if you're going water sailing">blue water sailing, get a deep keel. They have a small ballast to weight ratio and need the ballast low to help being tender, and on the wind, those blunt bows take a bit of pushing, which shallow keels let the boat slip sideways. His keel was very wide and flat, and even the dep keel, 6', could stand on a beach using lines from the mast to stop the heart racing when a squall comes through.

[BillAU]

G'day Jack,

My blue water days are over mate, the boat I end-up with will be used to sail/explore around the East Coast and "perhaps" the North Coast of Australia. I'll spend most of the time on the East Coast between the Hawkesbury River and Point Cook in the top end, depending on the season. I believe, right or wrong, a bilge or fin keeler would be best for those waters.
The thing that got me interested in the pictured yacht was, she is suposed to have a draught of 2'6" (I find that hard to believe for any sailboat) If she had fin keels as well as the main keel, like this 36' Queenslander, then the fins could be about 2'6". If that's the case, I have no idea what her draught will be.
She needs a new mainsail and a suitable motor. She did have a 10HP BMW but that was removed as the head gasket was blown. I think the yacht would need a 20, 25 or 30HP motor to drive her properly when needed.

Anyway, as I posted in my last post, I will need to get-up and do some checking for myself. I'm waiting on a reply from another seller, he has a well set-up Hartley 32 RORC. (Hartley have dropped the RORC tag and now call the 32 RORC yachts, Hartley 32) Once I hear back from him, I'll get-up and inspect both yachts...They're about 100KM apart so I can kill two birds with one stone.

Thanks again for your advice Jack.

[MattDamon2927]

Hi all, I am currently working on my ferro boat and I have a technical question. well 3 actually...

1) My boat has strange metal eyes set into the outside of the hull instead of any form of mooring cleat on deck. I have never seem this set up before in my life. I understand how to make a hole in my ferro deck for mooring cleats, but how much support would I need to build under the deck? A steel plate I imagine? How large would it need to be and how do you secure it? The boat is 27 tons and 54' in length.

2) I have read that in certain places that anodes should be avoided on these boats until some sign is shown that they definitely need them. Is this true? Or is it essential? If so, how many/where should they be placed? What would happen without them?

3) Would it be true to assume that any wooden walls on a ferro boat are not structural and could be removed/moved?

Thanks in advance to anybody who can help with the above.

James

[smallyachts]

Originally Posted by GreyMarauder

Hi all, I am currently working on my ferro boat and I have a technical question. well 3 actually...

1) My boat has strange metal eyes set into the outside of the hull instead of any form of mooring cleat on deck. I have never seem this set up before in my life. I understand how to make a hole in my ferro deck for mooring cleats, but how much support would I need to build under the deck? A steel plate I imagine? How large would it need to be and how do you secure it? The boat is 27 tons and 54' in length.

2) I have read that in certain places that anodes should be avoided on these boats until some sign is shown that they definitely need them. Is this true? Or is it essential? If so, how many/where should they be placed? What would happen without them?

3) Would it be true to assume that any wooden walls on a ferro boat are not structural and could be removed/moved?

Thanks in advance to anybody who can help with the above.

James

In response to #1 pictures would greatly assist in identifying what the strange metal eyes are. They could be hawser openings or scuppers possibly. It might also let us know what you have been using to tie off too, if the boat is in the water.

You will want some form of backing plate for the cleats, we generally use a combination of a wooden plate (hardwood) against the underside of the deck, and a steel plate against the wooden plate against which the nuts are tightened.

In response to #3 it would be impossible to tell just from your description whether or not they are serving a structural purpose. Are they just tabbed/glued onto the hull? Or do they attach via some type of cast in connection? What is the relationship of the bulkheads in regards to any overhead deck beams or floors below the sole? Are they athwartships bulkheads?

I think it would be best to first determine whether it was built to the original plans, and make some determinations there, or bring in a professional surveyor that has experience with FC.

In response to #2. It depends.

[banyandah]

Originally Posted by GreyMarauder

Hi all, I am currently working on my ferro boat and I have a technical question. well 3 actually...

1) My boat has strange metal eyes set into the outside of the hull instead of any form of mooring cleat on deck. I have never seem this set up before in my life. I understand how to make a hole in my ferro deck for mooring cleats, but how much support would I need to build under the deck? A steel plate I imagine? How large would it need to be and how do you secure it? The boat is 27 tons and 54' in length.

The less metal embedded in your hull the better. Big metal can and probably will rust over the life of the hull. Case in point, Hartley used 20X6 flat bar at the deck line and flare. It's the cause of more trouble than anything else, because where it has started to rust, it has been impossible to stop recurring and pops the cement in those areas.

Originally Posted by GreyMarauder

2) I have read that in certain places that anodes should be avoided on these boats until some sign is shown that they definitely need them. Is this true? Or is it essential? If so, how many/where should they be placed? What would happen without them?

Anodes are necessary for the exposed metal underwater. ie propeller, skin fittings ( don't use plastic) your rudder and rudder stock. Use them. Particularly necessary in some marinas to combat stray current from poor AC wiring. Also helps if you have a high power HF radio. That RF will attack your hull. Off subject - Watch where you place the HF or amateur radio, they put out heaps of RF usually out their rear that has broken done the mesh of my hull.

Originally Posted by GreyMarauder

3) Would it be true to assume that any wooden walls on a ferro boat are not structural and could be removed/moved?

It surely would be unwise to give a blanket answer to this. Does your vessel a have a cement deck or timber? If a mono-coon, then yes very possible the bulkheads can go where you like. I'm in favor of a crash b'head forming the chain locker. If a timber deck, then much greater caution must be taken to ensure the hull and deck remain integral. Write to the designer. They're usually very helpful, or find a forum of similar designs.

I concur regarding fastening fittings to a concrete hull. Nice solid timber backing plate bolted through a 3 mm ss plate to spread the load. Make them large. I once pulled my Aries straight through the deck when careening down a wavefront when way over-powered. **** happens. Mooring cleats take huge jerks in surge conditions, so they need to be securely fastened.

Cheers, Jack, New website: JACK & JUDE

[Black Wind]

Thanks folks for all of that.

She will be coming out of the water in a few days time for some work so we will see what I find. And thank you to everybody who has posted information on this thread - I think it will be viewed for some time to come.

James

[wolfaroo]

Hi all, good to see this thread is just about still alive, hope all are well...

Over a year ago I said I would post details of my ferro cement hull repair, the first part of which I completed in October 2010, so here it finally is. The attached PDF attempts to show the stages of my repair to a hole through the hull.

I have also uploaded some additional higher resolution photos to my profile with more to follow.

Summer is on the way!

Cheers,
Neal

[Mark1977]

Originally Posted by wolfaroo

Hi all, good to see this thread is just about still alive, hope all are well...

Over a year ago I said I would post details of my ferro cement hull repair, the first part of which I completed in October 2010, so here it finally is. The attached PDF attempts to show the stages of my repair to a hole through the hull.

I have also uploaded some additional higher resolution photos to my profile with more to follow.

Summer is on the way!

Cheers,
Neal

Great pics and very informative. Hopefully i never need it. Would love to see more pics any of the interior..

[wolfenzee]

My personal outlook on ferro cement can be summed up in one word WHY. I have seen more unfinished and/or bare ferro cement boats than finished and more unfinished and/or bare ferro cement hulls than bare everything else combined. To anyone that wants to finish a bare hull I recomend to find something other than cement. The only viable application for cement on a boat I can see is ballast (even then it is just a cheap alternative). I will not bother tyo explain my opinions because the secound response to this thread did a better job than I could possibly do.

[wolfaroo]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

I have seen more unfinished and/or bare ferro cement boats than finished

I very much doubt you could know such a thing with certainty given that ferro boats don't generally have the word 'ferro' stamped on their topsides and when finished properly don't really stand out as anything other than another yacht

and more unfinished and/or bare ferro cement hulls than bare everything else combined.

Not *that* surprising given unfinished wooden hulls can be dismantled/reused/burned/destroyed relatively easily, steel hulls can be cut up and resused/scrapped without too much fuss and an unfinished GRP hull broken up easily. By contrast, an unfinished ferro cement hull will sit there for many many years unless someone hires a crane and wrecking ball

To anyone that wants to finish a bare hull I recomend to find something other than cement.

No wonder you have seen so many of them lying around under utilised with recommendations like that!

The only viable application for cement on a boat I can see is ballast (even then it is just a cheap alternative). I will not bother tyo explain my opinions because the secound response to this thread did a better job than I could possibly do.

Given there are tens of thousands of ferro boats sailing around our amazing planet today isn't it time we, as a varied group of cruisers from around the world, accept some people will build/buy/repair/sail ferro cement boats and allow those that have to share technical support, hints & tips without telling them they should find 'something other than cement'?

When I saw you had 'wolf' in your username I assumed you must a great bloke but I was disappointed to see your post on this occasion only contained poorly informed opinion. But, if you're ever in my neck of the woods I'll happily buy you a beer and share some propaganda with you and hopefully open your mind on ferro cement boats

Cheers,
Wolfaroo

[wolfenzee]

I personally don't like ferro cement and there are alot of valid reasons to support that...but because that is MY personal opinion and I am not going to argue with yours.

Originally Posted by wolfaroo

I very much doubt you could know such a thing with certainty given that ferro boats don't generally have the word 'ferro' stamped on their topsides and when finished properly don't really stand out as anything other than another yacht

and more unfinished and/or bare ferro cement hulls than bare everything else combined.

Not *that* surprising given unfinished wooden hulls can be dismantled/reused/burned/destroyed relatively easily, steel hulls can be cut up and resused/scrapped without too much fuss and an unfinished GRP hull broken up easily. By contrast, an unfinished ferro cement hull will sit there for many many years unless someone hires a crane and wrecking ball

To anyone that wants to finish a bare hull I recomend to find something other than cement.

No wonder you have seen so many of them lying around under utilised with recommendations like that!

The only viable application for cement on a boat I can see is ballast (even then it is just a cheap alternative). I will not bother tyo explain my opinions because the secound response to this thread did a better job than I could possibly do.

Given there are tens of thousands of ferro boats sailing around our amazing planet today isn't it time we, as a varied group of cruisers from around the world, accept some people will build/buy/repair/sail ferro cement boats and allow those that have to share technical support, hints & tips without telling them they should find 'something other than cement'?

When I saw you had 'wolf' in your username I assumed you must a great bloke but I was disappointed to see your post on this occasion only contained poorly informed opinion. But, if you're ever in my neck of the woods I'll happily buy you a beer and share some propaganda with you and hopefully open your mind on ferro cement boats

Cheers,
Wolfaroo

[ozskip]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

My personal outlook on ferro cement can be summed up in one word WHY. I have seen more unfinished and/or bare ferro cement boats than finished and more unfinished and/or bare ferro cement hulls than bare everything else combined. To anyone that wants to finish a bare hull I recomend to find something other than cement. The only viable application for cement on a boat I can see is ballast (even then it is just a cheap alternative). I will not bother tyo explain my opinions because the secound response to this thread did a better job than I could possibly do.

Someone trolling so do not bite

[Mark1977]

Originally Posted by ozskip

Someone trolling so do not bite

Agreed.. I'm trying not to...