First Boat Redux

[Curmudgeon]

I see quite a few threads here started by folks seeking boat recommendations, and I need one too.

I'm 62, nearing retirement and looking for a cruising boat for myself and my wife. While I've sailed small sailboats all my life (Mercuries, Larks, Lasers, Tech Dinghies, and currently own a Galilee 15) , I have never been at the helm of anything larger than 18'. I've signed up for sailing and navigation classes and ordered some books.

I could afford a 200k boat but I'm not going to spend that for a first boat. I'm looking at 30-50k for a used boat, and would expect to put another 30-50k into the initial cost of purchasing the boat (surveys, repairs, etc.) I understand that a sailboat is a hole in the ocean into which money is poured and I'm prepared for that. The boat will be moored in the Jamestown/Newport RI area.

Initially I want to do some short cruises (to Nantucket, etc.) but would someday like to cruise the Carribean. My guess is that Antarctica is out of the question unless my wife predeceases me.

I'm looking for a seaworthy boat that is easy and fun to sail and has a cabin large and comfortable enough to satisfy my wife (a porta-potty simply won't do). I expect that she would also prefer something stable. Speed is not important, but handiness is: if it isn't both liveable and fun to sail it will become a floating condominium at its mooring and I don't want that. I need a boat that I can take out for a day or a weekend, as well as for a longer cruise.

I've looked at some of the more heavily marketed newer boats (e.g. Hunter, Benneteau) but they look kind of tinny to me. So now I'm considering a cruising boat. I probably want a sloop or a cutter: I see no need for dealing with a second mast (just more things to get tangled or go wrong).

Any recommendations from the "pros" on this forum as to a good boat will be greatly appreciated.

[SkiprJohn]

Aloha Curmudgeon,
Welcome to the world of constantly looking for boats. I say it every time. 32-36 LOD, fiberglass, diesel engine, cutter, aft cockpit. I like anything designed by Alberg or anything built by Allied, Pearson, Islander, Tartan, Bristol and you should find a bunch of those in your price range. Just for fun I try eBay Motors, Sailboat, Title and Description. I'm not saying buy there but you can certainly enjoy the pictures. Yacht World is good and there are other links that might be fun to search.
Walking the docks is fun and talking your way aboard is also fun.
Good luck in the hunt.
Kind regards,
JohnL

[Morgan Paul]

Here are 2 in your area :

Tartan 34 C Sailboat

Cape Dory 31 Sailboat

Good luck, maybe I will see you at Block Island.

Paul

[Curmudgeon]

Thanks for the responses. Yes, those boats are along the lines of what I was thinking. I was also looking at some of the Westsail and Pacific Seacraft models, although those tend to be pricey, even when used, and the Albin Vega, but the cabin on that boat looks to be a tad small.

So some dumb newbie questions:

1. How much will a good marine surveyor cost and how can I find one? If I buy from a yacht broker, I would prefer an inspector who is not too closely tied to that broker.

2. What would people here view as the most essential upgrades to a 25-30 year-old boat? Obviously safety equipment, if needed, would be the first priority. But after that?

3. One thing I'd want is roller reefing/furling for all sails. (I've seen from reading other threads that the purists don't like it on the main sail for safety reasons, but it seems to me that if you had a main sail that furled into the boom--as opposed to the mast--and the roller mechanism jammed, you could still reef the old fashioned way in an emergency so long as the sail had the grommets for it). How much would this upgrade cost?

4. Do I care whether the boat has a wheel or a tiller? Obviously I'm used to a tiller in small boats. Does either one have distinct advantages? I assume you can get one of those automatic steering systems for either one. How much do those cost?

5. My wife really cares about the fresh water tankage and hot water. She wants to shower withough worring about it. How much tankage should I be looking for? Can tankage be upgraded, or is it pretty much a given, like the fuel tank in a car?

6. How much should it cost to store a 30 ft. boat for the Winter (out of the water)?

7. What's the advantage of a full keel vs a keel/centerboard arrangement? Obviously shallow draft is good, but so is a boat that doesn't heel excessively.

My thanks in advance for any advice you can provide.

By the way, Pau1, that Cape Dory 31 looks just about right, and that's definitely a boat that will be on my "short list." Thanks for the link.

[Sunspot Baby]

Since this is a starter boat and not "the" boat, don't shy away from some of the more modestly priced production boats. You can learn to sail on them; they offer good creature comforts, and you can make sure you like the life style before plunking down the big $$.

The Admiral and I sailed a 31' Catalina in San Diego Bay for a week, and I think the two of us could have spent weeks at a time on her. Of course, we used to spend weeks at at time on a 24' sport fisher.

The Catalina had room to day sail with another couple.

Lots of folks think they need a "blue water" boat but if it is the starter boat you won't be crossing the Atlantic and hopefully, since you really want the wife to enjoy it won't head out into big weather, at least until you feel you are comfortable with a boat that size.

George

[Curmudgeon]

Well, when you are 62 years old, your first boat may also turn out to be "the" boat LOL. And although I don't need a "blue water" boat, it's nice to know that the capability is there (not to mention those large fresh water tanks). I'm told that they also tend to be stable and comparatively dry.

Also, here's my thinking on the ecomnomics: If we don't like the life style we can sell the cruiser just as easily as the production boat, and the 10-15k or so I save upfront will cost me 10-15k later. There are literally dozens of these Hunters, Catalinas and Benneteau's for sale everywhere-- particularly now that the economy is bad and folks are cutting back. Why should I compete with all of those people if I have to sell my boat? If I pay extra now for an older cruising boat of known quality (e.g. a Pacific Seacraft), it will likely hold its price better than the production boat because there will always be a market.

What does make sense is to charter a boat and spend some time cruising before buying anything. But if I see the "perfect" boat I'm going to buy it and worry about the lifestyle later. I know we like to sail and we go to RI all the time. In the worst case the boat becomes a large daysailer and floating tiki bar.

What worries me about the cruiser is not the price or the accomodations, but the fun of sailing it. I don't want a boat that only likes to go in a straight line.

[Sunspot Baby]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

I could afford a 200k boat but I'm not going to spend that for a first boat.

I guess I misunderstood and thought you wanted a starter boat.

We jumped into a blue water catamaran at age 59. Now it seems we probably won't circumnavigate but have not been sorry we bought a "hell for stout" boat.

George

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Sunspot Baby

I guess I misunderstood and thought you wanted a starter boat.

We jumped into a blue water catamaran at age 59. Now it seems we probably won't circumnavigate but have not been sorry we bought a "hell for stout" boat.

George

Well, it's a "first" boat, but if I choose wisely, it may serve indefinitely.

So should I be looking also at catamarans and trimarans? I don't see too many in my price range. In my youth I sailed a Hobie Cat, and they sure are fast. I also flipped the thing a few times.

How do big catamarans handle bad weather? I know the polynesians sailed them everywhere, so the design is obviously sound. But how easy is it to turn one over, and what happens if you do?

[Sunspot Baby]

Review existing threads and you will find lively debate about mono versus multi hulls. I have no desire to reignite the discussion here.

I have never been sorry I bought a cat. Never.

George

[SkiprJohn]

Aloha,
The Cape Dory 31 is a forever boat and some come as cutter rigs. The are not like a regular production boat. Tankage for that size should be about 25 gals fuel and 50 gals water unless you have a watermaker. Then you can get along with less. If you plan to cross the Pacific or Atlantic then you'll want more water tankage without a water maker.
Unless the owner has just bought a bunch of expensive new electronics then you can plan on upgrading those.
A tiller is good for any boat up to about 34. Larger you might want wheel steering. Auto Pilots can be had for about 1500 to 2000. You might want to get a West Marine Catalog to start pricing such things.
Marine surveyors are different costs in different areas. Look in your phone directory and then walk the docks to see who is using whom. Your local marina can give you prices or you can call some. They also are on the internet. All that is local knowledge kind of stuff.
Here in Hawaii in Hilo there are no slips except after a long wait. It costs $1 a foot to moor in Reeds Bay but you have to put down your own mooring.
Happy hunting.
JohnL

[SkiprJohn]

I just checked the Craig's list. That seems a bit high unless it is in perfect shape with new sails. You'd have to have a surveyor look at it and find things wrong so you can get a discount for repairs.
I'm an old curmudgeon who doesn't care for furling mains. They are hazardous. If it jams and you are in a blow you are going to be sailing with your spreaders in the water unless you cut down the mast or point your boat directly into the wind and let the wind shred the sail or you shred it yourself. Sorry to be severe. Just my opinion.
Kind regards,
JohnL

[Curmudgeon]

Yes, I've read that objection to furling mains. But if the furling was in the boom, and it jammed, couldn't you still reef the sail the old fashioned way? You would need a sail with reefing points, etc.

I can see why you would not want in-mast furling, but it seems to me that the boom is a different story. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

And thanks very much for the advice on the other stuff.

[imagine2frolic]

You can compare everything, and anything at yachtworld.com. In a couple of nights of research you could narrow down your questions.....BEST WISHES in the hunt!!!!!

[SkiprJohn]

Yes, you are right you could pull it down the old fashioned way and tie a reef in it if it had reef points. I don't know about in boom furlers but I don't think they are reefers too. I could be wrong.
Maybe you could start a new thread in construction/refit about in boom furlers?
Good luck in your search.
JohnL

[slomotion]

Your question is basically unanswerable because there are an amazing variety of cruising styles and they are all valid and appropriate for different people:

1. The perfect boat for you is all about needs, wants, and expectations, coupled with price parameters, etc.

2. You are correct to want to charter or otherwise find a way to spend time on different cruiser class boats.

3. Having a boat that most people view as a "bluewater boat" is fine, but there is no point is paying a premium for one unless you are planning to cross oceans. Most modern production boats are perfectly capable of coastal sailing or island hopping around places like the Bahamas and the Caribbean provided they are in Good Condition. In general, the modern production boat will be roomier, faster in light winds, and more comfortable at anchor - which is where most cruising boats spend most of their time.

FWIW, the ‘perfect’ boat for us in our early 50s turned out to be an ‘83 Hunter 34 because:

a. We correctly thought we could provision and live on her in (for us) reasonable comfort.

b. Our boat only cost us 25K (in 1999) and she was in excellent basic condition - we spent nearly that much refitting and upgrading her.

c. She was fast, easy to sail, and she (to us) was beautiful to look at.

We cruised our H34 throughout the Bahamas and the eastern Caribbean for 2+ years. Last we knew her new owners were happily sailing her in the vicinity of Guatemala. Now in our late 50s we would want something bigger. Would a 25 year old H34 be the "perfect" boat for you? Probably not - see #1.