Freedom Yachts

[speedoo]

Steve, I think you would agree that the wet decks you have observed are probably caused by owners failing to keep water intrusion from becoming a problem by properly bedding and sealing all hardware, chainplates, etc. This is a problem on a lot of plywood cored decks as well and the way to prevent is the same.

You're right, I have not had the opportunity to see any J-Boats or anything else built by TPI torn apart so I can only base my belief that they build boats well on the owner experience.

My understanding of the build process from having seen some videos and discussing it with the principals at J-Boats is that it is pretty simple. So I really I have difficulty understanding how they could mess it up unless the quality control was really poor, and I don't believe TPI would risk their very solid reputation in that way.

[Cheechako]

My TPI built Lagoon 42 had no core issues anywhere. Not one blister either...

[jsschieff]

From what I have heard, Freedom sailboats varied considerably in quality. One person I am aware of had a great deal of trouble with his -- some fairly serious construction flaws. My experience with some New England boat builders like Freedom is that in boom times they ramped up their workforce but had to hire fairly inexperienced people. They did not always have adequate quality control as they rushed out boats to meet demand. At other times they had less demand and built boats more slowly and carefully with a more experienced, core crew. So you may get a well-built Freedom, you may get a Freedom with a few rushed construction details. Overall they were a good boat, but be sure to get a competent survey of any Freedom you are hoping to purchase.

[Jim Cate]

Here is one specific observation re sailing performance of one specific Freedom 33:

Quite some years ago (early 80's) I was involved in single-handed coastal ocean racing out of San Francisco. My boat was an S&S designed "Yankee-30", which was a fairly ordinary production boat for its day. A Freedom 33 joined the fleet, and her owner was fairly confident that this easily single-handed very fast design would wipe out the conventional boats in the fleet. I was sore afraid...

First race he entered was from SF to Halfmoon Bay and back the next day. This is a broad reach going down and a beat coming back, roughly 25 miles each way. I fully expected him to fly away from me on the downwind day, but thought I might stand a chance coming back upwind.

Well, whaddya know? My 25 foot waterline sloop finished more than an hour ahead of his circa 30 foot WL cat ketch going down, and several hours ahead on the windward race!

My point is that one should not believe everything that Gary Hoyt said about the performance of his designs! This one at least was a real dog, and in fact never returned to try again.

I will admit that an "n" of one is not statistically very sound, but it sure opened my eyes.

Cheers,

[MikeZ]

Lots of the 30s and 32s -- earlier ones anyway -- seem to have a LOT of crazing in the decks. Gel coat was too thick is what I've been told.

regards,
Mike

[clockwork orange]

Speedoo, you are quite right,a lot of core problems in the decks of many boats are caused by what you say,unfortunatly with all the j boats we have worked on the builder caused as many problems by poor building practices,let me outline a few we have found on the J35s,we have recored the transoms on both the local ones due to the backstay chainplates being bolted straight thru balsa core,they are under a lot of load and invariably leak into the core and gravity takes the water downhill rotting it out,no competent builder would do this but wait,theres more,normally you would taper the core out before you get to the corner where the transom meets the bottom and do the same with the bottom core having solid glass making the transition but nooo,these idiots ran it right to the corner and ran the core in the bottom to meet it just to make sure that the bottom would rot out as well. these two boats were a couple of years apart in age but were both the same construction. On one of them they haad taken a small hit from some sharp edged object on the small radiused edge where the hull meets the deck just outboard of the tee track/toerail,someone did a temporary repair with a gob of silicone,well water got in anyway and rotted out about 6 sq ft of hull core,this wouldnt have happened had they tapered the core away before it got to the top like a quality builder would have.On the deck there was a lot of rotten core because guess what,the morons didnt leave the core out or substitute a denser material under the genoa tracks or winches, these are production boats and they know where each piece of hardware goes,its the eame on every boat so there is no excuse for not treating these areas properly other than they just dont give a ****. This is not to say that TP does not build better boats for other marketers such as Lagoon, i really believe that the quality of boats coming out of that facility has a lot to do with the quality mindset of the marketing company they are building for,im sure they built a lot better boats for Steve Dashew than for J boats,at least i hope so,they could hardly be worse,also i shold point out that my experience is with older boats an it may be that the vacuum infused boats are better.
Steve.

[speedoo]

Thanks, Steve. While that's disappointing to hear, it's also good to know. You're absolutely right... those areas of stress should not be cored.

[midcarol1]

I have have owned an 82 freedom 33 since 2001. First night out of Ft Lauderdale on the way to NC, we ran into a storm with 50 knot winds. I about wet my pants, but the boat did fine. It is a great boat for shallow waters, but is very seakindly in deep water. I just don't have the time or interest for it that I once did. And I am 72 and about ready to get out of boating. Boat is in Bath, NC. Let me know if you're interested.

[2ndstar]

Had a 1984 Freedom 25 for several years without any significant issues. Build quality was above average, though not on par with some luxury builders. One of the easiest boats I've ever sailed and relatively fast also.

Regards, Carl

[Delaminated]

I recall a Freedom years ago sinking off Charleston. The mast step came apart somehow. That carbon fiber mast base started to rotate and impact the bilge sides. After a few hours the hull was holed and took on water. The owner said he jammed in cushions and tried to secure it but no go. And no way to cut away carbon fiber. All aboard were picked up by a fishing trawler before the boat went under. They were confined to a cabin because the crew was from Langley VA and fishing for large Typhoons.

[Anzo]

There's a 44 next to my boat so I looked em up on Yachtworld. Neat interior

1982 Freedom Yachts 44 Cat Ketch Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

[bucanero]

Is the freedom 44 still for sale, where?
thx
bucanero@prw.net

[CastOff]

Originally Posted by jsschieff

From what I have heard, Freedom sailboats varied considerably in quality. One person I am aware of had a great deal of trouble with his -- some fairly serious construction flaws. My experience with some New England boat builders like Freedom is that in boom times they ramped up their workforce but had to hire fairly inexperienced people. They did not always have adequate quality control as they rushed out boats to meet demand. At other times they had less demand and built boats more slowly and carefully with a more experienced, core crew. So you may get a well-built Freedom, you may get a Freedom with a few rushed construction details. Overall they were a good boat, but be sure to get a competent survey of any Freedom you are hoping to purchase.

I AGREE WITH THE ABOVE STATEMENT and will add; that having grown up near TPI i can assure you the above staement is on YOUR MONEY when you buy a boat made from them. I don't see the TPI 'expanded workforce' as any more skilled than the crew down at Hunter in Florida, been THERE, seen that place Not saying every boat is poorly built, but it is a crap shoot to get a good one from any manufacturer IMO/E. Clockwork Orange is right and has seen the goods.

I fear cored boats because I do not have the ability to buy a boat and then worry about repairs down the road, regardless of how well they sail new! More specifically...www.yachtsurvey.com yikes!

[billmorris]

I am looking for anything, schematics, owner's manual, etc for a Freedom 29. It is listed as a cat sloop.
Thanis

[Vigilance]

I am the original owner of my Freedom-38, and I have avidely raced her approximately 45 days a year for the last 12 years. Love her. But I may have to give her up because of my age, not hers!