Full Keel Sailboats

[lyl]

Originally Posted by NedX

You're no fool. You're like every other guy who has the dream and wants to give it to someone else. That's...normal.

At the risk of being the guy who jumps in late in a thread to say something obvious, I've found that the biggest turnoff for new crew is when they sense that the skipper doesn't have the answer to a situation that pops up.

Growing up on a ridiculously small boat (Bristol 22') that my dad thought was fun to cruise up and down the Maine coast in all weather (man Bristol makes good boats) I remember that the thing that would make me scared was when I could tell that he was scared.

So if, for example, he asked my mom to ease the main sheet, and she instead released the main halyard, we could all see the panic when the mainsail dropped all over the deck and he didn't know what to do (we survived, and later, the running rigging was color-coded and labeled, but man did I hate sailing).

So I'd say it's a pretty big deal to know your boat before you bring the wife on board, whatever make of boat it is, if the goal is for her to fall in love with the occupation of live-aboard sailing.

I keep coming back to the idea of chartering something as similar as the one you're going to buy so you know what everything does and where everything is (and where she'll bump her head or stub her toe or put her weight on the wrong thing in a seaway). Maybe charter it with an experienced sailor on board to help walk you through. I bet you'd have no trouble finding someone on this forum who'd do that.

So it's not the boat you choose; it's you learning the boat you choose well enough to be able to translate it to the crew in a way that they'll be able to digest and enjoy.

Unless of course your wife wants a deck salon 42 footer that is fast but doesn't heel and negates the effect of swells, and can run AC/freezer/heat all at once, and has wifi and electronic winches and a microwave that works at sea, and never runs out of fuel and has an endless holding tank. In which case you are me, and you become a singlehanded cruiser. Or buy a trawler.

PS: There probably are sailboats that do a lot of that ^ but they are expensive. You've got to identify which are the most important boxes to check.

Thanx, man. This was a very kind reply.
I wouldn't need electronic winches, but certain things should run while anchored at coves.
I'd buy a lux cat before even considering trawlers...
Maybe, after some courses and such, I should just buy a cheap sailboat under 28ft without worrying about all those luxuries and learn to sail it by myself. Something very simple, with inboard diesel, but without hot pressure water or AC... No Bahama tours on it, just to teach sailing to myself. Months later, when I am ready, I can then charter various sailboats with my wife to see what kind of boat she likes and let her make the decision.

[lyl]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Learning is the fun part.......and by hanging out at a marina I wasn't talking about you.

Also there are several islands offshore you can sail to once you move over this way as a prelude to the Bahamas.

There are the Dry Tortugas and several Islands off the Mississippi Coast.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Dr...!4d-82.8731874

Thnx, man...

[lyl]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Some guy sailed a Bristol 22 from Port Townsend Washington (which is just north of Seattle) to Australia.....a few years back.

https://sites.google.com/site/bristo...els/bristol-22

A 'real man' can probably do that on such a little boat.
Me...? I don't know...

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Full

A 'real man' can probably do that on such a little boat.
Me...? I don't know...

Yeah or a real crazy man......not sure what electronics he had on board but I did see a photo of the interior of the boat when he was about to leave Australia.

There was zero room due to all the supplies. I think maybe the cockpit sole was still available for sleeping......

Everything was stacked to the ceiling and the V berth was full as well......

[NedX]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Some guy sailed a Bristol 22 from Port Townsend Washington (which is just north of Seattle) to Australia.....a few years back.

https://sites.google.com/site/bristo...els/bristol-22

I'm not surprised. We never crossed oceans, but I definitely remember not being able to enter the York River because the 10-15-foot entrance to the harbor was a wall of steep breakers... so we went back out and spent the night hove to while it calmed down. Good boat. Also, all five of us slept below (no one in the cockpit). So Bristol's claim was no lie.

[NedX]

Originally Posted by Full

Thanx, man. This was a very kind reply.
I wouldn't need electronic winches, but certain things should run while anchored at coves.
I'd buy a lux cat before even considering trawlers...
Maybe, after some courses and such, I should just buy a cheap sailboat under 28ft without worrying about all those luxuries and learn to sail it by myself. Something very simple, with inboard diesel, but without hot pressure water or AC... No Bahama tours on it, just to teach sailing to myself. Months later, when I am ready, I can then charter various sailboats with my wife to see what kind of boat she likes and let her make the decision.

I tell anyone who will listen that you find a place that will let you learn on something like a Soling 27: simple, easy to sail singlehanded, sturdy enough to take into the outer harbor. That'll learn you, in no particular order, about points of sail, sheet-handling, how to handle gusts and lulls, sail adjustment, rules of the road, casting off and landing, which lines do what. So that you're not trying to figure that stuff out when your furler jams in a seaway.

[AKA-None]

I haven’t read all the posts so this maybe a duplicate.
Up above you said your wife doesn’t like heeling but all mono hulls heel. Doesn’t matter what kind of keel you have or want they all will heel under Norma circumstances.
So if she doesn’t want that then you will have to put any thought of mono hull out of your mind.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

I haven’t read all the posts so this maybe a duplicate.
Up above you said your wife doesn’t like heeling but all mono hulls heel. Doesn’t matter what kind of keel you have or want they all will heel under Norma circumstances.
So if she doesn’t want that then you will have to put any thought of mono hull out of your mind.

He makes a good point.

Here the winds are maybe starting to gust to 18 knots plus maybe 20 at times since the front just came in.

I do have too much sail up but check the angle. That's quite the heel for someone not wanting any heeling.

I'm having to stand with one foot on the leeward lazerette to stay upright. I was having a beer I think since I could now see the headland to the small bay I was going to enter in a couple hours and be out of these winds and waves.. Headland near center maybe a bit right..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3I2zc0_7wY

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Full

I sure didn't know. I love this reply. Laughing at myself now. Yep, would be a huge deal breaker.

Dude, you see... I'm desperate. I should've called myself fool, not full!?
https://www.sailingmates.com/20-more...ing-sailboats/
The lovely list up there at the link is probably full of surprises like that, huh?
Okay, from now on, I'm all ears. Help me, save me from myself!? Just for learning purposes, suggest me a first boat - you know my whole story... Doesn't have to be a full keel; YES, you've just changed my mind.

OK Full, that's a step in the right direction IMO!

A general comment: The practice of cramming too many bells and whistles into a small yacht is both expensive and destructive to the normal functioning of the boat. Boats of a given size have a fixed limit to their available interior volume. If one crams all those extraneous things in, the space for really necessary things (fuel, water, stores, spares, bedding, sails, tools, clothing, foulies, dinghies... ad infinitum) is reduced beyond practicality. In my view, this is a non arguable fact. A side effect is the price increment associated with the practice, as evidenced by the ~40K$ tag on the IP27 you were romancing. A useful learner boat of similar size could be had for < a quarter of that sum. And please don't kid yourself about recovering much of that high price upon resale...

As to suggesting a specific boat...

First, is the purpose of this boat to learn to sail or to be a platform for coastal cruising? Big difference IMO.

Second, specifically where will it be used? This too has an influence on recommendation, for sailing conditions are markedly different in different locales, and local preferences of design influence what may reasonably be expected to be found when seeking to buy.

Answering these questions will help all of us in making rational suggestions for your consideration.

Jim

[lyl]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Yeah or a real crazy man......not sure what electronics he had on board but I did see a photo of the interior of the boat when he was about to leave Australia.

There was zero room due to all the supplies. I think maybe the cockpit sole was still available for sleeping......

Everything was stacked to the ceiling and the V berth was full as well......

crazy alright

[lyl]

Originally Posted by NedX

I'm not surprised. We never crossed oceans, but I definitely remember not being able to enter the York River because the 10-15-foot entrance to the harbor was a wall of steep breakers... so we went back out and spent the night hove to while it calmed down. Good boat. Also, all five of us slept below (no one in the cockpit). So Bristol's claim was no lie.

wonderful memories...

[lyl]

Originally Posted by NedX

I tell anyone who will listen that you find a place that will let you learn on something like a Soling 27: simple, easy to sail singlehanded, sturdy enough to take into the outer harbor. That'll learn you, in no particular order, about points of sail, sheet-handling, how to handle gusts and lulls, sail adjustment, rules of the road, casting off and landing, which lines do what. So that you're not trying to figure that stuff out when your furler jams in a seaway.

I'll look into it. TY.

[lyl]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

I haven’t read all the posts so this maybe a duplicate.
Up above you said your wife doesn’t like heeling but all mono hulls heel. Doesn’t matter what kind of keel you have or want they all will heel under Norma circumstances.
So if she doesn’t want that then you will have to put any thought of mono hull out of your mind.

It's complicated.

[lyl]

Originally Posted by thomm225

He makes a good point.

Here the winds are maybe starting to gust to 18 knots plus maybe 20 at times since the front just came in.

I do have too much sail up but check the angle. That's quite the heel for someone not wanting any heeling.

I'm having to stand with one foot on the leeward lazerette to stay upright. I was having a beer I think since I could now see the headland to the small bay I was going to enter in a couple hours and be out of these winds and waves.. Headland near center maybe a bit right..

Looks like fun to me, man...

[lyl]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

OK Full, that's a step in the right direction IMO!

A general comment: The practice of cramming too many bells and whistles into a small yacht is both expensive and destructive to the normal functioning of the boat. Boats of a given size have a fixed limit to their available interior volume. If one crams all those extraneous things in, the space for really necessary things (fuel, water, stores, spares, bedding, sails, tools, clothing, foulies, dinghies... ad infinitum) is reduced beyond practicality. In my view, this is a non arguable fact. A side effect is the price increment associated with the practice, as evidenced by the ~40K$ tag on the IP27 you were romancing. A useful learner boat of similar size could be had for < a quarter of that sum. And please don't kid yourself about recovering much of that high price upon resale...

As to suggesting a specific boat...

First, is the purpose of this boat to learn to sail or to be a platform for coastal cruising? Big difference IMO.

Second, specifically where will it be used? This too has an influence on recommendation, for sailing conditions are markedly different in different locales, and local preferences of design influence what may reasonably be expected to be found when seeking to buy.

Answering these questions will help all of us in making rational suggestions for your consideration.

Jim

Jim,
I'm glad we're on the same page.
To be honest, on the day of purchase, I'll have not given 40k to a 27ft old boat. Yeah, I'm a bit romantic, but when the matter in hand is money, I turn into a quite realistic man!? And I agree with you about cramping the boat with stuff.
These being said, I've come up with a new road plan...
After we move, I'll attend sailing classes, this and that. Then I'll buy my first serious sailboat, something small, cheap, old - something that can make it to the Bahamas maybe, but not to go cruising with my wife. It'll teach me the ropes. After I gain enough experience on it with day sails, I'll take my wife to charter cruises a few times, on different types of sailboats each time, and then let her make the decision what kind of sailboat shall be our future vessel for cruising purposes...
So what I have in mind is a ~ 25 - 27 ft sailboat. It can have fin, wing, full, or long keel, no worries about that anymore. I'd like it to have a inboard diesel though, so that I can gain experience dealing with it. Also a head, but no care for hot / pressure water, shower, AC, microwave, wifi and those kinds of things. Simple, with tiller rudder and such... Hopefully this gives a general idea...