Full Keel Sailboats

[Yihang]

Originally Posted by Full

Jim,
I'm glad we're on the same page.
To be honest, on the day of purchase, I'll have not given 40k to a 27ft old boat. Yeah, I'm a bit romantic, but when the matter in hand is money, I turn into a quite realistic man!? And I agree with you about cramping the boat with stuff.
These being said, I've come up with a new road plan...
After we move, I'll attend sailing classes, this and that. Then I'll buy my first serious sailboat, something small, cheap, old - something that can make it to the Bahamas maybe, but not to go cruising with my wife. It'll teach me the ropes. After I gain enough experience on it with day sails, I'll take my wife to charter cruises a few times, on different types of sailboats each time, and then let her make the decision what kind of sailboat shall be our future vessel for cruising purposes...
So what I have in mind is a ~ 25 - 27 ft sailboat. It can have fin, wing, full, or long keel, no worries about that anymore. I'd like it to have a inboard diesel though, so that I can gain experience dealing with it. Also a head, but no care for hot / pressure water, shower, AC, microwave, wifi and those kinds of things. Simple, with tiller rudder and such... Hopefully this gives a general idea...

This is a more practical approach. I was like you 15 years ago. Wanted a full keel after reading all the classics, hearing people lamenting the benefits of a protect rudder etc. Then I wanted a lifting keel boreal, then a twin keel sirius, a cat and right now I'm really taken with the Neel 43 Trimaran.

A good way to try out different boats cheaply is to join a local club. For a few hundred bucks a pop you can try out different boats and share the cost between friends. People you meet in the ASA classes will also be keen on sharing the cost to get the hours. No berthing costs, nothing to fix, just fun times on the water.

I think you'll find it hard to justify a 40 yo full keel with a tiny cramped cockpit after trying the newer fuller beam boats. The newer boats also feel more stable because of the initial stability.

The wife or anyone who isn't besotted with the romantic image of sailing will want the biggest boat with the most initial stability, not a good idea to tell the wife a narrow hull with deep ballast will right itself better when you go over.....

[lyl]

Originally Posted by NedX

Best wishes for 2021, and may you find your boating dream.

thanks.

[lyl]

Originally Posted by Albinvega27

Excellent list

my new to go site.

[lyl]

Originally Posted by NedX

Good intel, thanks. I figured it went up from 400 once you started customizing.

That is such a sweet boat. Sorry, Full, for thread-hijacking.

all urs...

[lyl]

Originally Posted by Yihang

This is a more practical approach. I was like you 15 years ago. Wanted a full keel after reading all the classics, hearing people lamenting the benefits of a protect rudder etc. Then I wanted a lifting keel boreal, then a twin keel sirius, a cat and right now I'm really taken with the Neel 43 Trimaran.

A good way to try out different boats cheaply is to join a local club. For a few hundred bucks a pop you can try out different boats and share the cost between friends. People you meet in the ASA classes will also be keen on sharing the cost to get the hours. No berthing costs, nothing to fix, just fun times on the water.

I think you'll find it hard to justify a 40 yo full keel with a tiny cramped cockpit after trying the newer fuller beam boats. The newer boats also feel more stable because of the initial stability.

The wife or anyone who isn't besotted with the romantic image of sailing will want the biggest boat with the most initial stability, not a good idea to tell the wife a narrow hull with deep ballast will right itself better when you go over.....

still, the top ten is mainly keels. although I'll keep an open mind on the final decision day. we'll see... thnx.

[4eyes]

I would like to thank Full for starting this thread, and all the participants for sharing their views and experiences. It has helped me distill down what I am looking for in a boat and how we will be using it.

FYI Full https://sailboatdata.com/
is a great site to get stats and compare models and brands.

My "short list" as it stands tonight, with my criteria being long keel, 5' or less draft, preferably cutter or ketch, preferably tiller steered, and small enough to single hand while having enough space to sleep four adults as needed.

CUTTERS

34' Cabo Rico
31' Grampian Classic
32' & 35' Fuji
36' Union (even though it draws 6' and has a full keel) because Bob Perry
30' BABA
30' & 330 Cape Dory
35' Hallberg Rassy Rasmus
35' Southern Cross
36' Robin Hood
36' Cape Dory

KETCHES

31' Mariner
32' & 35' Fuji
30' Cape Dory
38' Shannon (pushing the size, but it is gorgeous)
32' Bristol
36' Cape Dory

SLOOPS

35' Spencer
33' Cape Dory


IF you broaden the search to include the "cruiser keel" or long fin keel, a lot more choices open up. Not separated by sail-plan but the same basic criteria:

33' Moody
S2 9.2 & 11
36' Tosca
36' Amel
37' Tartan
352 Hallberg Rassy
33' CSY
30', 33', 36' Pearson (plus more I'm sure)
30' Nimble
322, 34' O'day
32'-36' Westerly (some have twin "bilge keels")

And I'm sure there are a lot more that I have missed, but others will fill out the list.

[Yihang]

Another thing. I think you said your wife will probably not take any courses with you.

Having her learn to sail and liking it is the best way for you to get your full keel boat. A professional instructor is way better than you trying to teach her later yourself, one shout from you and it's all over. If all she enjoys about sailing is sitting at anchor then you are fighting an uphill battle.

If I were you I would invest in some private ASA courses, just you, the wife and an instructor on a decent size boat in good conditions. This way she might.......might, just come around to liking 'the heel'.

Don't plan on 100% single handing all the time. She will get bored and start to find little things about sailing that annoys her, and there are ALOT.

I think you'll agree that all the channels on youtube are of couples who both sail. The only few where the wife seems to be just there as a passenger are couples with big catamarans and day hopping the islands.

[Albinvega27]

Originally Posted by Yihang

Another thing. I think you said your wife will probably not take any courses with you.

Having her learn to sail and liking it is the best way for you to get your full keel boat. A professional instructor is way better than you trying to teach her later yourself, one shout from you and it's all over. If all she enjoys about sailing is sitting at anchor then you are fighting an uphill battle.

If I were you I would invest in some private ASA courses, just you, the wife and an instructor on a decent size boat in good conditions. This way she might.......might, just come around to liking 'the heel'.

Don't plan on 100% single handing all the time. She will get bored and start to find little things about sailing that annoys her, and there are ALOT.

If you´re wife doesn´t likes the heeling, the boat and the shouting and is reluctant to take her shoes of, my best advise is: "Get yourself a new wife". It is cheaper than a new boat and at least with your boat, the dreamboat will stay with you. The dreamwoman? I´m not so shure!"

[Yihang]

Originally Posted by Albinvega27

If you´re wife doesn´t likes the heeling, the boat and the shouting and is reluctant to take her shoes of, my best advise is: "Get yourself a new wife". It is cheaper than a new boat and at least with your boat, the dreamboat will stay with you. The dreamwoman? I´m not so shure!"

Probably why you see a lot of single handers out there in small monos....

I think men overestimate the allure of single handed sailor on a small rolly mono.

You need a neel 51. haha. This guy managed to pick up a 20 something argentine girl not too long after he started. Good luck with that on a 27 foot mono.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPOT...carryonsailing

When a girl see a bearded man on a small mono she probably think you are a creep.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by Yihang

Probably why you see a lot of single handers out there in small monos....

I think men overestimate the allure of single handed sailor on a small rolly mono.

You need a neel 51. haha. This guy managed to pick up a 20 something argentine girl not too long after he started. Good luck with that on a 27 foot mono.

When a girl see a bearded man on a small mono she probably think you are a creep.

I took a girl to sea on a 27' mono. I even grew a beard. We're still married. Who knows but what lightning might strike twice?

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by Yihang

I think men overestimate the allure of single handed sailor on a small rolly mono.

Let me guess ...

you've been listening to Yang Li 杨笠 and her whole 'he (and his rolly full keel boat) look so ordinary, how can he have so much self-confidence (about his capacity to go cruising)?' [他明明为什么看起来那么普通，但是他却可以那么自信?]

[jalmberg]

Originally Posted by thomm225

So when it comes time for you to get a chart plotter you can build you own for about $100 if you already have a Monitor.

Just get a Raspberry Pi 3 or 4 computer and load it with OpenCPN. Then get a USB GPS puck and you will have a chart plotter.

Or you can spend $1500 for one. It's totally up to you and what you enjoy doing......or not doing.

Does anyone actually use OpenCPN on a boat? I find it to be so clunky as to be nearly unusable, and a massive step down from just about any iPad nav app. I think it appeals to a lot of arm chair tech-types, but actual boaters? I wonder.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by jalmberg

Does anyone actually use OpenCPN on a boat? I find it to be so clunky as to be nearly unusable, and a massive step down from just about any iPad nav app. I think it appeals to a lot of arm chair tech-types, but actual boaters? I wonder.

I use it (OpenCPN)) on my boat mainly when anchoring in shallow water and when I get in a creek far in passed the channel markers.

Sometimes I'll look at it while in mid bay 15 miles offshore but usually then I know about where I am and have plenty of depth.

It's actually pretty easy to use if you play with it some.

I have charts for the coastal waters of Maryland, Virginia, and North Carolina and out maybe 30 miles into the ocean downloaded now and will download more when I begin to cruise full time. Pilot charts are also available for downloading on OpenCPN

I have OpenCPN 5.2 on my Raspberry Pi 4 Computers running Linux OS (one at home and one on the boat) and I also have it on my Laptop which uses the Windows 10 OS.

I can see my "boat/apartment" when at my home so I can play with it there also.

I have AIS displayed on the OpenCPN chart also all on my 19" HDTV. The AIS is coming in through an RS422/485 USB Adapter bring in the AIS NMEA Data to the Raspberry Pi from my SH GX2200

Lots of full time cruisers use it also which is where I got the idea.

OpenCPN Forum. https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f134/

Btw, there's an updated image now available to download free for the Raspberry Pi Computers on the Open Plotter (OpenMarine) Website.

https://cloud.openmarine.net/s/sL9doDML7P4CQDo

The coolest thing is if you already have a monitor you can make a chart plotter for about $100 with a Raspberry Pi and a USB GPS Puck and use it on your boat.

[Yihang]

Originally Posted by Alan Mighty

Let me guess ...

you've been listening to Yang Li 杨笠 and her whole 'he (and his rolly full keel boat) look so ordinary, how can he have so much self-confidence (about his capacity to go cruising)?' [他明明为什么看起来那么普通，但是他却可以那么自信?]

Talk about a thread drift. haha...

I have no clue when it comes to Chinese music. I turn on my VPN and listen to spotify.....

[lyl]

Originally Posted by 4eyes

I would like to thank Full for starting this thread, and all the participants for sharing their views and experiences. It has helped me distill down what I am looking for in a boat and how we will be using it.

FYI Full https://sailboatdata.com/
is a great site to get stats and compare models and brands.

My "short list" as it stands tonight, with my criteria being long keel, 5' or less draft, preferably cutter or ketch, preferably tiller steered, and small enough to single hand while having enough space to sleep four adults as needed.

CUTTERS

34' Cabo Rico
31' Grampian Classic
32' & 35' Fuji
36' Union (even though it draws 6' and has a full keel) because Bob Perry
30' BABA
30' & 330 Cape Dory
35' Hallberg Rassy Rasmus
35' Southern Cross
36' Robin Hood
36' Cape Dory

KETCHES

31' Mariner
32' & 35' Fuji
30' Cape Dory
38' Shannon (pushing the size, but it is gorgeous)
32' Bristol
36' Cape Dory

SLOOPS

35' Spencer
33' Cape Dory


IF you broaden the search to include the "cruiser keel" or long fin keel, a lot more choices open up. Not separated by sail-plan but the same basic criteria:

33' Moody
S2 9.2 & 11
36' Tosca
36' Amel
37' Tartan
352 Hallberg Rassy
33' CSY
30', 33', 36' Pearson (plus more I'm sure)
30' Nimble
322, 34' O'day
32'-36' Westerly (some have twin "bilge keels")

And I'm sure there are a lot more that I have missed, but others will fill out the list.

this reply is awesome.
TY.