Full Keel Sailboats

[carlosproa]

Originally Posted by carlosproa

So full keel boat
And Bahamas
Morgan33 out islander

https://www.boattrader.com/boats/mak...out-island-33/

And

https://www.inautia.com/used-boat-83...097491004.html

If you want full keel there it is, not my first choice but I get it, Many decades ago I made the mistake of buying a 1978 Lancer 28 full keel boat and drew 3 ft draft. Very tender boat but anything can cross the Bahamas. Really, anything.

https://www.practical-sailor.com/sai...iews/lancer-28

[hpeer]

Full,

I am of the strong opinion that displacement is a better measure of boat size than LOD. There is another thread about discussing the topic of tons per crew member.

You may want to look at that thread and develop some idea of mad and minimum displacement you desire. May help you narrow your list.

[searoom]

Centerboard keels were pretty common to help with upwind performance. Nice to shorten up the draft for shallows.

[4eyes]

I have very similar taste in boats, and have been learning from reading about a year now. It's my nature to over-research a large purchase.
The Cape Dory, Baba, and Pearson Vanguard are the first sailboats that caught my eye, followed shortly by some very old and expensive wooden boats.
As I learned about boats other models led me "down rabbit holes" (Hallberg Rassy), but now I have come full circle back to Cape Dory etc. I am drawn to the Long Keel, Full Keel with Cut-out, or 3/4 Keel boats. All the same thing, just depends on who is talking as to what they are called.

UNLIKE the O.P my all in price is $35,000. And I would prefer not spending more than $20,000 on the initial purchase. I am capable of doing all of the skilled labor to renovate and maintain, myself.

I have around another year, to year and a half until I make my purchase. I look forward to learning more.
Thanks to all the forum members who are sharing their exoeriences. You are helping more than just the O.P.

[Don C L]

Not to belabor or argue the point but to me there is a difference between a long keel and a full keel. If the forefoot is cut away then you are moving toward a long keel but I think of my own as a long keel because it was apparently sculpted that way. A Freya 39 to my eye is a full keel boat with the forefoot trimmed away. But then a Pearson Ariel I'd call that a long keel and an Albin Vega... well I am not sure where to put that one. So anyway if you look at a Columbia 50, is that a fin keel or a long keel that had the rudder separated?
So maybe I missed it, but what feature of fullness are you aiming at? Comfort? Seaworthiness? Seakindliness? Roominess?
No criticism intended here, just clarification.
Anyway, given your initial post I bet you're headed toward a Nor'sea 27 or a Vancouver 27/28, or Cape Dory 28 (though I think the 30 may be a better choice personally)

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Not to belabor or argue the point but to me there is a difference between a long keel and a full keel. If the forefoot is cut away then you are moving toward a long keel but I think of my own as a long keel because it was apparently sculpted that way. A Freya 39 to my eye is a full keel boat with the forefoot trimmed away. But then a Pearson Ariel I'd call that a long keel and an Albin Vega... well I am not sure where to put that one. So anyway if you look at a Columbia 50, is that a fin keel or a long keel that had the rudder separated?
So maybe I missed it, but what feature of fullness are you aiming at? Comfort? Seaworthiness? Seakindliness? Roominess?
No criticism intended here, just clarification.
Anyway, given your initial post I bet you're headed toward a Nor'sea 27 or a Vancouver 27/28, or Cape Dory 28 (though I think the 30 may be a better choice personally)

Full, this is what I was getting at in my recent post asking what YOU mean when you say you must have a full keel... and you still haven't addressed that issue.

You are getting suggestions that include all the variants that Don mentions. You ask for help in trimming out unsuitable examples. For any of us to do that meaningfully, ya gotta answer the question. Any chance that you might do that for us?

Jim

[lyl]

Originally Posted by searoom

The Bristol 29, 30 and 33 are full keel and designed
by Halsey Herreshoff. These were late 1960’s and 1970’s production boats. A nice stiff water sailing">blue water sailing boat.

I've been checking them out. Great boats. ty.

[lyl]

Originally Posted by carlosproa

So full keel boat
And Bahamas
Morgan33 out islander

https://www.boattrader.com/boats/mak...out-island-33/

And

https://www.inautia.com/used-boat-83...097491004.html

this could be the perfect boat. thanks.

[lyl]

Originally Posted by carlosproa

If you want full keel there it is, not my first choice but I get it, Many decades ago I made the mistake of buying a 1978 Lancer 28 full keel boat and drew 3 ft draft. Very tender boat but anything can cross the Bahamas. Really, anything.

https://www.practical-sailor.com/sai...iews/lancer-28

this was helpful advice. ty.

[lyl]

Originally Posted by 4eyes

I have very similar taste in boats, and have been learning from reading about a year now. It's my nature to over-research a large purchase.
The Cape Dory, Baba, and Pearson Vanguard are the first sailboats that caught my eye, followed shortly by some very old and expensive wooden boats.
As I learned about boats other models led me "down rabbit holes" (Hallberg Rassy), but now I have come full circle back to Cape Dory etc. I am drawn to the Long Keel, Full Keel with Cut-out, or 3/4 Keel boats. All the same thing, just depends on who is talking as to what they are called.

UNLIKE the O.P my all in price is $35,000. And I would prefer not spending more than $20,000 on the initial purchase. I am capable of doing all of the skilled labor to renovate and maintain, myself.

I have around another year, to year and a half until I make my purchase. I look forward to learning more.
Thanks to all the forum members who are sharing their exoeriences. You are helping more than just the O.P.

what is op? by the way, i like what u say.

[lyl]

Originally Posted by searoom

Centerboard keels were pretty common to help with upwind performance. Nice to shorten up the draft for shallows.

nah...

[lyl]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Full,

I am of the strong opinion that displacement is a better measure of boat size than LOD. There is another thread about discussing the topic of tons per crew member.

You may want to look at that thread and develop some idea of mad and minimum displacement you desire. May help you narrow your list.

as long as, it is good for a beginner.

[4eyes]

Originally Posted by Full

what is op? by the way, i like what u say.

O.P. = original poster

One thing I forgot is that I am a sucker for cutters. I could see myself with a ketch or yawl, so long as they had a foresail and staysail.

[Celestialsailor]

I have a Westsail 28. Before that a Hallberg-Rassy 35. before that a Ingrid 38...all full keels. Two things to remember. A full keel is not necessarily a beginner boat. A 28 ft. is 34 with bowsprit the 38 was 46 with bowsprit. They can be real tricky docking. You could buy a Catalina 27 for $3K and see what you like. But if you want pricesand you are a beginner, I'll assume that you do not want to start with a project. A turnkey Westsail 28 will set you back about $20-$25K. A Pearson Triton for $10K turnkey. A Baba 30 for $40-$50K. Hope this helps.

[CarinaPDX]

The division of full keel, long keel, cut-away forefoot, etc is pretty fuzzy. I would take something like the Ingrid 38 as a full keel, which is to say that the bottom of the keel is carried far forward - enough so that the boat can sit on its keel. My Cape George 31 is often referred to as a full keel boat but I think that is misleading: it has the stem curve aft as it hits the waterline and continues aft and down until about the mast, where it flattens into the bottom of the keel. The CG31 cannot sit on its keel without support under the bow as she will tip onto her nose otherwise. (I have argued with travel lift operators who insisted it wasn't necessary, only to discover that it is. The curve is very deceptive.) I am not talking about a cutaway forefoot, where there is a bit of concave to the profile; it is convex but just takes its sweet time curving aft and down. As with so much else, it is a compromise: by not carrying the keel low to far forward the wetted surface area is reduced, for lower drag, and she can turn a bit easier, at the cost of not tracking quite as well (she does track well though). Personally I would not want to go to the extreme of a nearly plumb stem and straight keel for most of the length. The Westsail 32 has a similar profile, though closer to a full length keel.

Another issue with these classic designs is the beam versus ballast. My CG31 has a narrow beam (9-1/2 feet) and so uses a lot of lead ballast (7500 lbs) to provide stability. Initially she is a bit tippy but once heeled she is exceedingly stable. The Westsail 32 has an 11 ft beam, and so has more hull form stability but uses less ballast (7000 lbs). She is a bit less tippy initially thanks to the beam, but the ultimate stability will be only slightly less from the lesser ballast. The extra 1-1/2 ft beam translates into a lot more room below. OTOH the CG31's narrower beam should give it an advantage sailing to weather (I believe it does from my experience). Downwind the beamier boat should carry a spinnaker better. Admittedly these distinctions are small compared to the differences between full and fin keels, and speed is relative: if you are in a hurry take a jetliner.

Greg