Full Keel to Fin Keel.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by Paul L

And why is this superior to having the longer waterline available from the start, instead of requiring the boat to tilt onto its ear to get the longer line? These designs were done to beat tbe CCA racing rule.

FYI my Alberg 35 had some wicked weather helm when the winds picked up and you headed onto your ear.

My Luders 33 had very light helm to 40 degree heel.
And I love cruising at 10-15 deg heel instead

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Paul L

And why is this superior to having the longer waterline available from the start, instead of requiring the boat to tilt onto its ear to get the longer line? These designs were done to beat tbe CCA racing rule.
FYI my Alberg 35 had some wicked weather helm when the winds picked up and you headed onto your ear.

CptPat is not claiming superiority with his Ariel, he just notes that it is a sweet sailor.

There are a lot of very nice boats which have been designed and built over the decades and many of them are still sailing, and their owners often love them, for good reason.

I myself like all well designed boats, and the ones designed for performance the best because they are the boats which light my fire when they get going, old or new.

But my own boat is a wide, flatish, fin keeler, which does not much increase it's waterline when heeled over, is not so flat that it pounds excessively, can sail any direction in any wind, and has such directional stability due to it's keel and rudder that it is a dream on a passage.

But it's old.

Many newer boats are better.

Let's all cherish the great boats we have but reserve some judgement on the ones which differ from our own.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by wingssail

CptPat is not claiming superiority with his Ariel, he just notes that it is a sweet sailor.

.......

I guess the comment that the increased waterline was due to the genius of Carl Alberg was what I was referring to. It was a CCA rule beater
Before I owned by Alberg 35 I owned a Pearson Ariel 26. I know how they sail and what their PHRF rating is.

[Jim Cate]

When heeled to 25 degrees, her waterline is 25 feet, and her hull speed increases to 6.7 knots. So I gain a knot.

That's amazing... the OAL of your boat is just over 25.5 feet, from the tip of the bow roller to the tip of the transom, and heeling just 25 degrees gets it ALL into the water. Seems like the drag must really go up when all t hat stuff on deck is submerged as it must to achieve that heeled LWL.

Or am I missing something here?

Jim

[double u]

��
..yeah, the good old days with the good old boats...
everything's been going downhill in a freighttrain since they got no grown frames & no caulked seams any more!

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Paul L

I guess the comment that the increased waterline was due to the genius of Carl Alberg was what I was referring to. It was a CCA rule beater
Before I owned by Alberg 35 I owned a Pearson Ariel 26. I know how they sail and what their PHRF rating is.

So tell then me why you're sailing with a boat with so lowsy rating? Nobody is allowed to talk about fast passages unless the PHRF rating of their boat is less than 50 and even then not very loud until rating below 15

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

So tell then me why you're sailing with a boat with so lowsy rating? Nobody is allowed to talk about fast passages unless the PHRF rating of their boat is less than 50 and even then not very loud until rating below 15

That is a bit of an odd comment, rude actually. Maybe you meant it to be sarcastic. In any case I think it's out of place.

The Alberg 35 and the Ariel 26 are very nice vessels, and looking at the Alberg's peers, the rating is not lousy, it's probably fair for the size and age of the design. I could enjoy sailing either boat around my bay, even racing them.

I don't know Paul L or Cpt Pat but to me it's pretty understandable why someone might be quite happy with a sweet sailing, economical, boat.

When (IF) you finish your boat lets see how it rates.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by double u

..yeah, the good old days with the good old boats... everything's been going downhill in a freighttrain since they got no grown frames & no caulked seams any more!

Quite, those fins cause all sorts of problems for skippers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzo2XBtl8cM

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by wingssail

That is a bit of an odd comment, rude actually. Maybe you meant it to be sarcastic. In any case I think it's out of place.

The Alberg 35 and the Ariel 26 are very nice vessels, and looking at the Alberg's peers, the rating is not lousy, it's probably fair for the size and age of the design. I could enjoy sailing either boat around my bay, even racing them.

I don't know Paul L or Cpt Pat but to me it's pretty understandable why someone might be quite happy with a sweet sailing, economical, boat.

When (IF) you finish your boat lets see how it rates.

You right about sarcasm, but that's basicly the same message what he has been saying about other peoples boats so if the rating is so important for him why doesn't he have a "better" rated boat.
What comes to my boat I'm afraid there won't be any rating as I'm not going to participate any race with her..

[Jim Cate]

if the rating is so important for him why doesn't he have a "better" rated boat.

ummm... if you would take the trouble to look, Paul is cruising in an Outbound 44, one of the quicker cruising boats around, so he has put his money where many only put their mouths.

Jim

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

ummm... if you would take the trouble to look, Paul is cruising in an Outbound 44, one of the quicker cruising boats around, so he has put his money where many only put their mouths.

Jim

Rating 90.. there are many much faster boats around. My point however is that cruising is not about speed. It's Pauls point..

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

ummm... if you would take the trouble to look, Paul is cruising in an Outbound 44, one of the quicker cruising boats around, so he has put his money where many only put their mouths.

Jim

And just for fun, in between the Alberg 35 and the Outbound I cruised and raced a J/37. Took the J/37 as far north as SE Alaska and then through the Canal and up tbe US East Coast.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

Rating 90.. there are many much faster boats around. My point however is that cruising is not about speed. It's Pauls point..

Keep to telling your point. That is not my point and you know it. You are the one that can't seem to understand that a faster boat makes a faster passage which exposes you to less weather.

[Don C L]

... yeah and I have to reef early and often my little ol' tender boat if I want to keep going as wind pipes up. It's kind of like a little underpowered motorcycle with an 8 speed transmission, yer always shifting gears! Well maybe not that bad, but I do need to reef at about 18 knots if I want to keep the heel and weather helm down. And then the windspeeds get pretty close together for the next reefs. The helm is not much till past 20 deg for me, but if I am at 20 its time to reef really. (I don't WANT to but it's time). But mine is not an extreme CCA example as it is anyway.
Just for the sake of more argument, I think it is useful to look at the heights of the overhangs of the old CCA boats. Some just seem excessive to my eye to the point where I am not sure how much of that overhanging hull ever made it into helping out with waterline! I think Luders and Alberg might have done well to lower the overhangs a bit, but then I ain't no N.A. When you look at ol J-class boats, they had a lot of overhang and relative to their length they were low and thus more useful

[Training Wheels]

I don’t think any of those overhangs helped increase waterline near as much as a lot of people think. It was a way to beat the rating rule, so any little bit helped. It was not about aesthetics.