Full keel vs fin keel for offshore?

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Pete7

So what exactly is "bluewater" ? perhaps more important were does it exist?

Does for example the grey waters of the North Atlantic qualify or the brown muddy waters of the English Channel, how about the frozen seas in the Arctic?

So does bluewater mean clear blue water between the Tropic of Capricorn and Cancer?

Pete

Not exactly sure but this boat is one that can sail in most any water whether it be Blue or Brown should the OP or someone else decide to bring it back to life

Westsail 32: $6,500

https://richmond.craigslist.org/boa/...439047748.html

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Pete7

So what exactly is "bluewater" ? perhaps more important were does it exist?

Does for example the grey waters of the North Atlantic qualify or the brown muddy waters of the English Channel, how about the frozen seas in the Arctic?

So does bluewater mean clear blue water between the Tropic of Capricorn and Cancer?

Pete

You got me Pete.. bluest water I've seen was a lake 3200 odd metres up in the Hindu Kush..

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Not exactly sure but this boat is one that can sail in most any water whether it be Blue or Brown should the OP or someone else decide to bring it back to life

Westsail 32: $6,500

https://richmond.craigslist.org/boa/...439047748.html

Now I must confess to being one of those who used to disparagingly refer to these as wetsnails when I was young and way too arrogant and judgemental. But that is certainly a boat that has proven itself, really strong, super roomy and at that price is certainly worth a look. The fact that it is a factory boat is a real plus! This should be posted over in the "Boats under $30k" thread.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Now I must confess to being one of those who used to disparagingly refer to these as wetsnails when I was young and way too arrogant and judgemental. But that is certainly a boat that has proven itself, really strong, super roomy and at that price is certainly worth a look. The fact that it is a factory boat is a real plus! This should be posted over in the "Boats under $30k" thread.

Yep, I have always liked these boats before I knew what they were.
( I was a beach cat racer recently back to the coast from Tennessee first time I saw one)

This old guy (probably about the age I am now) had one and I was so amazed at all the stays. I'm thinking it had like 11. (this in 1996)

Btw, the slip fees I'm thinking should be quite low where this boat is docked. So it could be a boat someone could revive at low cost over a few months to a year

[crankysailor]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Pete Bluewater is generally referring to being beyond shoreside rescue range. ( beyond helo range.)

I am pretty sure he was being "cheeky"

I really don't understand why folks talk this one up. A bluewater boat does *not* mean a vessel in which one can cross oceans. Some dude just crossed the atlantic on an SUP.. so are SUPs bluewater boats? .. come on. Having uncle Moe doing a circumnavigation on this or that boat doesn't make it a bluewater boat either.

A boat can not be everything to everyone. That is just common sense. Until someone designs a revolutionary sailing craft based on a completely different physical principle, ff you want comfort and roomy cabins, you *have* to give something else up. Sorry, it is just how physics and the universe works.

So a bluewater boat is a definition because common use makes it one, to label a vessel which will take care of its crew when the sea state gets rough with the least tiring motion and best possible safety for its occupants. If you argue that a beamy open transom design with a fin keel and a spade rudder and salon armchairs is such a thing, that is fine.. I can claim that a bicycle is an ideal vehicle to go down a highway. That doesn't make it a fact that most sane people would accept.

So want to know if a given boat is a bluewater boat? get on it. If the mere thought of you being in stormy seas on it makes you want to get off, it ain't a bluewater boat. Easy as that.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by crankysailor

I really don't understand why folks talk this one up. A bluewater boat does *not* mean a vessel in which one can cross oceans.

You can kinda see the reason folks use the term Blue Water Boat just from this thread.

The OP was thinking/hoping to use his Grampian 23 to cross an ocean and then lots of folks replied with reasons why it wasn't a good idea......that maybe the Grampian 23 wasn't a.......Blue Water BOAT!!

Lists of the so called Blue Water Boats though like Bluewater Boats.org, Atom Voyages, and the Mahina Offshore site can help new "cruisers" with their decision on the type of boats that might work for them.

[Tidjian]

Hello all! I apologize for the absence and again thank you for all those wonderful replies. I've been on a little bit of a hiatus the past few weeks. I hope everyone is doing well, wherever they are at, and the weather is nice for those at sea! Happy to be back on the community board and now that winter is crawling to an end I can start looking around at all those suggestions and more. I have a few revisions to my original idea. I may have more money than I first thought coming in the near future, so that will be a big plus in hashing this plan out.

Expect to see more of me!

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by crankysailor

So want to know if a given boat is a bluewater boat? get on it. If the mere thought of you being in stormy seas on it makes you want to get off, it ain't a bluewater boat. Easy as that.

I find it always a good idea to look at what experience naval architects, who are also experienced cruisers build for themselves.
When building for themselves they are guided only by their knowledge and experience, and personal tastes, and not by any market biases.

One thing that becomes apparent is that most of them seem to believe that fin keel and spade rudder are perfectly suitable for blue water sailing, as are light weight hulls...

[Casuarina67]

Originally Posted by picklesandjesse

More than 30 years ago I bought a 28ft Twister called Mijo in Darwin and left on July 1st to sail to Port Moresby in PNG. This was a singlehanded trip at the height of the trade wind season. It was a 1200 mile bash to weather and took 28 days. Twisters are long keel boats and the only way I could live aboard in such conditions was to really pinch it. By doing this I made it in conditions that would have made me turn around in a faster fin keel boat. Torres strait was an absolute nightmare but I was an animal by then. These were the days of navigating with a sextant. When I arrived the people at the Yacht Club couldn't believe that the trip was possible.
So what I am saying is that a heavy long keel boat can get there. I would never have done it in some of my former fin keel boats, just too uncomfortable. It was a surprise to me at the time. Headwinds were up to 40 kts at times. Twisters are still very popular in the UK and really great boats. I see that Mijo is for sale at the present time too. It also might have helped that I was at last free from my first wife after 18 years !! Her name was Nancy No Pants..... don't ask.

Hi picklesandjesse. I picked up this old thread when doing a search for the Twister Mijo. I have a timber twister built at Dee Why in Sydney in the 60s and have just been following up some searches about Twisters in Australia. Would you be happy to contact me by email so I could find out a bit more about your ownership of Mijo? cheers. Greg