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**hpeer** · 12-02-2022, 05:30

Another baot many will hate. But it has some interesting features, not run of the mill.

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/199...rewer-8186771/

MicHughV · 12-02-2022, 05:54

For sure....it's the age of the boat...and...um....the age of the designer...

My first boat had long overhangs, narrow beam, short LWL, skeg hung rudder, deep draft, heavy displacement, hank on sails...etc...that was considered a good "cruising" boat in it's heyday...

My latests has almost no overhangs, beamy, for sure, light displacement, planing hull....deep spade rudder, relatively shallow draft.....roller furling, etc...

They both have their positives and negatives when sailing, I'd have to think long and hard as to which was better...in all weather conditions.

There is a boat out there for every season and reason. Every designer aims for a certain market....many are $$ driven...some are budget boats...who is to say which is better....???

For most, boat selection is constrained by budget....while we all aspire to drive a Ferrari, our budget sez VW....

The "best" boat is one you can "afford"....

**hpeer** · 12-02-2022, 06:52

PERHAPS, the ONE reason we see so many NEW light fat boats now, and virtually zero of the “classics” is that there are already a zillion of the classics on the market, and they are relatively cheap. If you want an oldie but goodie you can find one, low demand for new builds when the market is full. And also probably fee new design boats get out to the open water, long passage test. So they are perfectly suitable for the kind of usage most will see.

If someone wants a heavy all weather boat, it is available at reasonable cost.

Bill O · 12-02-2022, 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicHughV

while we all aspire to drive a Ferrari

Ever drive one? I have (as well as a Lotus and others) and it is an adrenaline rush, but I got over it.

Some people think they want/need to go fast all the time and that's fine. I've driven a fast, light car a long distance and would rather have a Cadillac for a cross country drive.
Different boats for different folks.

Bill O · 12-02-2022, 08:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by hpeer

Another baot many will hate. But it has some interesting features, not run of the mill.

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/199...rewer-8186771/

The back story the above boat was good Ted Brewer Yacht Design

Nok1a · 12-02-2022, 08:20

Hi guys, I have a question, keep in mind I´m not an expert by any means, but I´m wondering about all of this of designs between old vs new boats, I can understand in terms of quality of the fiber glass thicker in the old times "weaker" nowadays, but in terms of design wont be better go for vessels who look similar to the volvo ocean race? those ones are design to sail around the world in whatever conditions, are not those the best ones to be outside?

ricwoz · 12-02-2022, 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nok1a

Hi guys, I have a question, keep in mind I´m not an expert by any means, but I´m wondering about all of this of designs between old vs new boats, I can understand in terms of quality of the fiber glass thicker in the old times "weaker" nowadays, but in terms of design wont be better go for vessels who look similar to the volvo ocean race? those ones are design to sail around the world in whatever conditions, are not those the best ones to be outside?

So, this post follows a previous one where I asked people exactly that question, and got a lot of interesting answers: (Link here: Old vs. New Style Cruisers)

I was more focused on the design, rather than the construction techniques. You had better made and cheaper made boats in every era. A lot of companies today are building boats with similar design features, some are more stout than others.

The Volvo Ocean racer is a purpose-built racing boat, so it wouldn't be too many people's top choice for cruising. It's meant to be crewed by a large crew (11 sailors, probably most of them young athletic men), so if you need five guys working together to pull down a sail, with another on the helm, no problem. Racing boats can be sailed a lot closer to the edge than most couples want to sail. The helms are manned by experienced skippers at all times, no hours letting the auto-pilot steer you on your course.

ricwoz · 12-02-2022, 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by hpeer

Another baot many will hate. But it has some interesting features, not run of the mill.

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/199...rewer-8186771/

What's to hate? Certainly not the workmanship, it's a really nice looking interior. For sailing up here in the Pacific Northwest (where a lot of motoring gets mixed in) it seems like it would be a good setup.

Nok1a · 12-02-2022, 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricwoz

So, this post follows a previous one where I asked people exactly that question, and got a lot of interesting answers: (Link here: Old vs. New Style Cruisers)

I was more focused on the design, rather than the construction techniques. You had better made and cheaper made boats in every era. A lot of companies today are building boats with similar design features, some are more stout than others.

The Volvo Ocean racer is a purpose-built racing boat, so it wouldn't be too many people's top choice for cruising. It's meant to be crewed by a large crew (11 sailors, probably most of them young athletic men), so if you need five guys working together to pull down a sail, with another on the helm, no problem. Racing boats can be sailed a lot closer to the edge than most couples want to sail. The helms are manned by experienced skippers at all times, no hours letting the auto-pilot steer you on your course.

Yes I do understand that, but I mean the design of those boats are not the tipical blue water cruising yatch, with spade rudders and "flat" bottom hulls , one of the things for example Dick B. mention is the "flat fottom" sailboats dont do well in heavy waves and rough wether but yet you see the design of these racing yatch and they do more than well.

I wonder how will perform an ocean racing vessel built as the regular cruising vessels, maybe they wont perform that well as they are not meant to be that heavy and they are mainly empty inside

goboatingnow · 12-02-2022, 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzDean

Twin Rudders have advantages, however if you are doing a lot of stern in med mooring or any berthing where there are boats side by side with bow lines or anchors, then having rudders located at the side can be problematic as there is not much room for error in a cross wind/current. This is a problem for cats sometimes when entering/leaving these types of moorings but at least cats have twin engines and are more maneuverable. I did see a review of a recent big ass, voluminous cruising yacht where they had opted for the single centre rudder and the performance was stilll fine. Do twin rudders give you better performance? How many cruisers sail their boat upwind on its ear anyway?

Given I see twin rudders med mooring every day of the year. I’d say the dagger boards of cats are far more problematic. Twin rudders are very common these days. The owners seem to have no particular problem with them. I think this is a another “ internet perceived “ fear that doesn’t really bother those actually doing things.

MicHughV · 12-02-2022, 10:58

Bill O,
Some years back, I had an opportunity to drive a Lamborghini...but I had to fill the fuel tank first.....which I gladly did for this occasion....20 gallons or so....
When you put your foot in it....and who wouldn't..the fuel consumption skyrockets....
If my memory holds, I drained that tank in about 40 minutes.....of...er...spirited driving...

Off course, I could never afford to own one...and as exhilarating as it was to drive it, it is not a very practical car...

I view boats in much the same line...speed is nice, but it must come with some practicality...affordability being one of them.....seaworthiness another......etc

For instance....apart from many other things, there has been a tendency of late in newer designs to lead all lines back to the cockpit...My Beneteau is classic here. The cockpit can get quite cluttered with lines, many hanging inside the boat. It looks like spaghetti there when I'm sailing.

To get the lines all back to the cockpit requires many turning blocks, sheaves, cam cleats, etc. There is so much friction in these lines, that it requires a winch to do a simple job I could normally do by hand. Ostensible this is done to keep one in the cockpit.

It's not for me. I like to work halyards, reefing lines, etc, from the mast. It's simpler, less complicated, and I'm standing right there if something screws up. It doesn't bother me in the slightest to leave the cockpit. I have life lines and at sea, I'm always clipped in...

When I left to go cruising, my first boat had a simple ice chest. It was good for about a week.....10 days if I wasn't pinching ice for my rum drinks. On a long trip, I learned to drink my rum warm. No a/c, no generator, no GPS, no electronic charts, no solar panels, etc...but I had the time of my life.

These days, I can walk down the docks and find a cluster of sailors analyzing weather and sea data from all sorts of sources....a/c quietly humming in the background. Weather guru's provide an additional source of data.
What they are looking for is that perfect day...wind 15 knots or less....seas 12" or less....and wind direction from astern.

Well, guess what, they never leave the dock.

Fancy, well equipped boats is not the answer. Go to Ft. Lauderdale and the latest and greatest are lined up like ducks in a row. First time those boats head out thru' an inlet, and a small wave rocks the boat....mama sez....this is not for me...turn around..
But the old rickety boat with bearded geezer also leaves and simply keeps going.

'jes sayin'.....

Ericson38 · 12-02-2022, 19:33

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/198...n-447-8032355/

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/norseman-447

Queen Ann Storm caught one

https://dragdevicedb.com/drogues-on-...l-norseman-447

Action on one here on CF about 5 years ago.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ht-187337.html

Na Mara · 12-02-2022, 20:10

My dream yacht is the one I own; namely a Regina 43. Quality built pilothouse cruising yacht with lots of tankage, a great interior, a pilot house you can see over and around from the cockpit, rod linked steering to a single halfskeg rudder whose stock extends all the way to deck level, moderate lines, molded longish fin keel with bolted on lead shoe. Great weight distribution (everything heavy is over the keel). Few lines in the cockpit but can be reefed from the cockpit.

If you want a boat with a similar ethos but without the pilothouse then Malö is for you. Quality build, Moderate lines, deep well-protected aft cockpit with rod linked steering onto a single rudder. All sail-handling from the cockpit. Weight distribution and tankage aren’t as good as the Regina, nor do you get the big aft cabin and interior helm, but still great cruising boats.

If you are looking for something like a kraken under 50ft then these are the boats for you.

**hpeer** · 13-02-2022, 06:36

Ricowz,

My “hate” comment was a bit sarcastic, it is a lovely boat with much to recommend it. Wd have a 33’ Ted Brewer and spoke to him a few times. We have a soft spot in our hearts for the man and his work.

Na Mara,

The Regina is also an impressive boat that hits a lot of spots for us. The aft cabin rivals (or is better than) that seen on many center cockpits of similar size. I looked at sailboatdata and it seems they have a misplaced decimal point in their fuel tankage figure. I can see why yiu are smitten with her.

Here is a funny thing about us. Although our boat is older and more worn and without the pilot house of the above two beauties we prefer our boat for a number of reasons, peculiar to us. We are sailing our big boat in the Caribbean and do not want the heat load of a pilot house. Nor do we want a diesel generator. But more odd is that both boats are too NICE.

At heart we have never progressed beyond our sophomore year of college. Even our fancy address town house furniture was largely made of milk crates. For whatever reason we dislike fancy upholstery, we are only gonna mess it up and ruin it. And I tend to use the galley counter as a workshop bench. I am pretty careful with it and frankly it needed replacing when we bought the boat 10-12 years ago. If I replaced it it would be a hardship to us.

Our boat is in top notch form, we are just now getting a new furler. It just looks like crap. Se had a lot of welding done and all the steel dust has stained the decks. Never matter, they needed painting anyway. I will get to it when it makes sense.

Hou see, I cojld jot take that attitude with either of those beauties, it would kill me and them. But we can ENJOY this boat more because it asks very little if us. And we are at that stage of life where appearances are of very little import. If I run aground, no matter, no harm done, just back off. Crab pots lines I try to miss but It is damn near impossible in the fog or dark, never matter, I have never wrapped one. We have never had a deck leak.

Comfort and satisfaction are very personal dimensions.