HALMAN 20 / MIDGET 20 (for bluewater journeying)

[DK2730]

How would a HALMAN 20 do for bluewater?
For crossing oceans, but not the North Atlantic, it would break the world record for shortest length of boat and it's pretty strong while moderately heavy displacement.

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/nordic-halman-20

[TrentePieds]

Why do you ask? Boats - if they can be called that - shorter than 20 feet have indeed crossed the Atlantic.

IMO what you are proposing, by implication, is not cruising. It's a mere stunt. That will become apparent to you if you hang around here for a while, and particularly if you get in some actual sailing time either in the boat of a competent friend or by signing up with a sailing school employing qualified, certified instructors.

It is not boats that take their crews safely across oceans. It's crews, particularly the skippers, that take their boats safely across oceans. Your question triggers the thought that you may not be ready for such a task yet :-)

All the best,

TrentePieds

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by DK2730

How would a HALMAN 20 do for bluewater?

For crossing oceans, but not the North Atlantic, it would break the world record for shortest length of boat and it's pretty strong while moderately heavy displacement.



https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/nordic-halman-20

It wouldn’t come close to any record.
The shortest for around the world is 13’
The shortest for the Atlantic is 5’2” or was 20 odd years ago.

[DK2730]

Originally Posted by Adelie

It wouldn’t come close to any record.
The shortest for around the world is 13’
The shortest for the Atlantic is 5’2” or was 20 odd years ago.

I posted this THREAD POORLY.
I was simply saying that the World Record for smallest boat to Circumnavigate the Earth is 21.5' and was accomplished by an Italian sailor who was already a professional athlete in Yacht Racing the sport.

So the Halman 20 has a reputation of being tough as any boat on earth.
It's lighter than a 24' Flicka, though many have thought for years the Flicka 20 was also 20' long. It will be structurally sound and very safe, it would get through the Doldrums much more easily than a lumbering Flicka or very heavy displacement full keel of shorter size.

Halman 20 / Midget 20

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/nordic-halman-20

[Adelie]

Ahh. That makes more sense.
Caribbean hurricane season is Jun-Nov.

I would consider the Halman 20 a decent boat for going RTW. I would put 3 reefs in the main and install a bow sprit for light air sails (drifter). The boat is under canvassed for light air. Probably I would convert the current headstay to be a fractional forestay for a stay sail. For the staysail stay I would consider jumpers or running backs or both. Redundancy is a great thing for mast support.
I would put an arch over the stern to carry a 150-175W solar panel and small panels on either side of the cabin top.
1 MPPT controller on each panel and 2 Trojan 1275 batteries.
Each panel gets a small controller to minimize shading problems and those batteries because you probably only have room for 2 batteries and those are the biggest 12v golfcart batteries I could find. If you get 2-6v batteries and 1 dies you don’t get 12v. If a 12v dies you still have 1 that works just less total capacity. Golfcart batteries from a major manufacturer because they are certain to be a real deep cycle battery rather than a Marine/RV hybrid with a sticker on it claiming to be deep cycle.

A 2.3-5hp 4-stoke outboard would be plenty for cruising.

[Adelie]

I was wrong 11’10”.

Serge Testa aboard Acrohc Australis finishing in 1987.

[DK2730]

Originally Posted by Adelie

I was wrong 11’10”.

Serge Testa aboard Acrohc Australis finishing in 1987.

I was in southern Spain, Gibraltar and Morocco in Oct/Nov 1999.
Grenada and the Alhambra are incredible. It's easy to believe I can do this, cause I have travelled by backpack, budget travelling so much in my past.

Your claims of someone circumnavigating seem impossible to me.
I did hear of a fisherman who got pulled out by the current off South America and ended up in western Micronesia or somewhere across the entire Pacific pretty much.

I better look up the story you are talking about.

[DK2730]

Pretty sure Hurricane Season for the Caribbean is from July to January

[DK2730]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Ahh. That makes more sense.
Caribbean hurricane season is Jun-Nov.

I would consider the Halman 20 a decent boat for going RTW. I would put 3 reefs in the main and install a bow sprit for light air sails (drifter). The boat is under canvassed for light air. Probably I would convert the current headstay to be a fractional forestay for a stay sail. For the staysail stay I would consider jumpers or running backs or both. Redundancy is a great thing for mast support.
I would put an arch over the stern to carry a 150-175W solar panel and small panels on either side of the cabin top.
1 MPPT controller on each panel and 2 Trojan 1275 batteries.
Each panel gets a small controller to minimize shading problems and those batteries because you probably only have room for 2 batteries and those are the biggest 12v golfcart batteries I could find. If you get 2-6v batteries and 1 dies you don’t get 12v. If a 12v dies you still have 1 that works just less total capacity. Golfcart batteries from a major manufacturer because they are certain to be a real deep cycle battery rather than a Marine/RV hybrid with a sticker on it claiming to be deep cycle.

A 2.3-5hp 4-stoke outboard would be plenty for cruising.

This post of yours is a good DOCUMENT TO STUDY for me. THANKS FOR THIS.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by DK2730

Pretty sure Hurricane Season for the Caribbean is from July to January

Where’s you learn that?
Looking at Hurricane data on Wikipedia I figured June-Nov.

The top 5 results when searching “Caribbean Hurricane Season” agree.

So does Nat’l Hurricane Cntr @ NOAA:
https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/climo/

[DK2730]

Early June to late November it appears is the Caribbean Hurricane Season.

I just read a bit of this one, and so far it's scary reading about the odd MARCH HURRICANE in the Caribbean / Atlantic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...tic_hurricanes

[DK2730]

May 1 to Jan 30 is smartest to not travel in the Caribbean by Sailboat unless you tucked away down in Bocas del Toro.

The above website clearly indicates May 1 to Jan 30 is not safe, so my own natural analysis given about June to Jan Hurricane Season, wasn't even vast enough for full vigilance required to be safest journeying.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by DK2730

This post of yours is a good DOCUMENT TO STUDY for me. THANKS FOR THIS.

Not a problem. I have a Cal20 which I ha e thought about going to Baja on so you are getting my conclusions from thinking about that.

The weight of items for the boat will mostly scale up and down with the size of the boat. Bigger boat means bigger anchor, chain, sails, motor, bigger everything.
Except fuel that scales some but not that much for various reasons.
The provisions, water and personal gear that you put aboard are going to weigh the same regardless of how big or small the boat it’s. Figure about 1500lb including your own weight.

The net effect is that a smaller boat tends to be more heavily loaded than a larger boat because the weight of personal gear and supplies is the same regardless of the size of the boat.
Adding sail area and light air sails is critical.

Next you need to think about steering the boat 24/7.
A. The first thing you are going to think of is an autopilot. Not terribly expensive, easy to use. The problem is that the don’t wear well, and the use significant amounts of energy. Figure 35-50Ahr/d depending on conditions. The batteries I recommended would be sufficient but they just store energy, they don’t create it. Generators, hydro generators, wind turbines, and solar panels create electrical energy to store in a battery for later use. Hydro is too expensive. You could mount a wind turbine over the stern but it would shade the solar panels.
OK, how much solar do you need to provide 35-50Ahr/d? 105-150W. That’s most of the production from the panel over the stern.

B. Mechanical windvane. Monitor or MrVane, maybe an Aries but the Monitor as already 50lb, Aries is 70lb, MrVane is 20-30lb. Windvane is the best choice if you can afford it. No electrical draw, very reliable, faster than an autopilot unless there is a big wind shift you don’t notice with in a few minutes. Used Aries and Moniored can be had for about $2k. New MrVane is about the same. Windvanes take some futzing around with and some practice but are definitely the better choice.

C. The cheapest way to self-steer is sheet to tiller. You buy some materials your self, make a few items and you are good to go. Lot more futzing and practice and you will have to change the setup if you change from a reach to a run or to close hauled so more work. Lot cheaper, lot lighter. There are a number of online sources. Search for “Foolish Muse”. Name of a boat out of San Francisco that singlehand races a lot that came up with some systems. He made a video or two and a Single handed TransPac manual with info. The best single source is a book by Lee Woas. Long out of print and will set you back $50-100 but worth it since he came up with a whole bunch of methods for different points of sail and different boats. If one method doesn’t work he has info on a different method that might.

Water is heavy. So maybe you might think to carry a watermaker and save the weight but you can only go so far with that. You will be on a tight electricity budget so that means there’s probably only one watermaker that would be reasonable PUR 35 or 40. PUR has a pressure recovery pump which uses less power per gallon made. It uses about 3-4Ahr/gal vs 6-8 for most others. Figure 15W of panels for each gallon you make per day. When you start a passage you should have 1/2gal for each anticipated day on passage. You can live on 1/2-gal/d. Make the water you need everyday and leave the tank alone until you get to the 1/2 way point the start using 1/2gal/d from the tank in addition to whatever you make. If the watermaker or the electrical system fail you still have enough to survive.

Speaking of anticipated passage times. Figure to average 63-75nm/d.
LA-HA is 2200nm so 30-35d.

Energy budget Ahr/d
1. Cabin lights using LEDs.
3. Nav lights https://www.solidsignal.com/clipper-...0aAtM8EALw_wcB
3-10 Fan
12-15 VHF w/ AIS receiver.
25. GPS w/ chart plotter.
2. Handheld GPS w/ maps.
1. Depthsounder

[DK2730]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Not a problem. I have a Cal20 which I ha e thought about going to Baja on so you are getting my conclusions from thinking about that.

The weight of items for the boat will mostly scale up and down with the size of the boat. Bigger boat means bigger anchor, chain, sails, motor, bigger everything.
Except fuel that scales some but not that much for various reasons.
The provisions, water and personal gear that you put aboard are going to weigh the same regardless of how big or small the boat it’s. Figure about 1500lb including your own weight.

The net effect is that a smaller boat tends to be more heavily loaded than a larger boat because the weight of personal gear and supplies is the same regardless of the size of the boat.
Adding sail area and light air sails is critical.

Next you need to think about steering the boat 24/7.
A. The first thing you are going to think of is an autopilot. Not terribly expensive, easy to use. The problem is that the don’t wear well, and the use significant amounts of energy. Figure 35-50Ahr/d depending on conditions. The batteries I recommended would be sufficient but they just store energy, they don’t create it. Generators, hydro generators, wind turbines, and solar panels create electrical energy to store in a battery for later use. Hydro is too expensive. You could mount a wind turbine over the stern but it would shade the solar panels.
OK, how much solar do you need to provide 35-50Ahr/d? 105-150W. That’s most of the production from the panel over the stern.

B. Mechanical windvane. Monitor or MrVane, maybe an Aries but the Monitor as already 50lb, Aries is 70lb, MrVane is 20-30lb. Windvane is the best choice if you can afford it. No electrical draw, very reliable, faster than an autopilot unless there is a big wind shift you don’t notice with in a few minutes. Used Aries and Moniored can be had for about $2k. New MrVane is about the same. Windvanes take some futzing around with and some practice but are definitely the better choice.

C. The cheapest way to self-steer is sheet to tiller. You buy some materials your self, make a few items and you are good to go. Lot more futzing and practice and you will have to change the setup if you change from a reach to a run or to close hauled so more work. Lot cheaper, lot lighter. There are a number of online sources. Search for “Foolish Muse”. Name of a boat out of San Francisco that singlehand races a lot that came up with some systems. He made a video or two and a Single handed TransPac manual with info. The best single source is a book by Lee Woas. Long out of print and will set you back $50-100 but worth it since he came up with a whole bunch of methods for different points of sail and different boats. If one method doesn’t work he has info on a different method that might.

Water is heavy. So maybe you might think to carry a watermaker and save the weight but you can only go so far with that. You will be on a tight electricity budget so that means there’s probably only one watermaker that would be reasonable PUR 35 or 40. PUR has a pressure recovery pump which uses less power per gallon made. It uses about 3-4Ahr/gal vs 6-8 for most others. Figure 15W of panels for each gallon you make per day. When you start a passage you should have 1/2gal for each anticipated day on passage. You can live on 1/2-gal/d. Make the water you need everyday and leave the tank alone until you get to the 1/2 way point the start using 1/2gal/d from the tank in addition to whatever you make. If the watermaker or the electrical system fail you still have enough to survive.

Speaking of anticipated passage times. Figure to average 63-75nm/d.
LA-HA is 2200nm so 30-35d.

Energy budget Ahr/d
1. Cabin lights using LEDs.
3. Nav lights https://www.solidsignal.com/clipper-...0aAtM8EALw_wcB
3-10 Fan
12-15 VHF w/ AIS receiver.
25. GPS w/ chart plotter.
2. Handheld GPS w/ maps.
1. Depthsounder

Muchos Gracias, Amigo.
Mi Nombre es Derek. Su navegacion intellect es grande y, mi no hable espanol por vente anos.

Esta bien informacion. Grande, muy grande info.

Baja del Sur?
Loreto would be choice other than the damn rattlesnakes!
At least they have a respectful defensive alert / warning system.
They are a respectful animal by design it seems to me.

Huatulco, Mexico. (Check that place out, southern Pacific side, has reefs for snorkeling)
Loreto, Southern Baja.
Tenacatita, Jalisco, Mexico (has some reefs but not prominent or very impressive, but none the less, they are there in this little farm town area between Puerto Vallarta and it's about 45 minute drive north of Manzanillo).

When do you go to Baja in your CAL20??
The CAL25 is full keel almost, never looked at the CAL20 yet.

HUATULCO, if you don't know of it, it's very much worth knowing of.
MAYAN CITY of Palenque is 5 hours inland or so as I understand, the most impressive Mayan city to visit.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Not a problem. I have a Cal20 which I ha e thought about going to Baja on so you are getting my conclusions from thinking about that.

Speaking of Cal's...here's the one I would take anywhere with the proper modifications. https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/cal-30


I'd bet these days, you could find one forgotten in a boatyard somewhere for a song.