Hanse 418 or Jeanneau 410?

[Nyodyssey410]

Good to know

We also upgraded to the electric transom.

We ordered a lot of extras so worried about it going south on us

[Zzmeyer]

I have my 5th new boat on order. The other four had problems, each different and hard to predict. My last dealer said when you find a problem make a note, because at the end of the first month you will have a list and if you bring it in for each thing separately it will drive both of us crazy. Nothing major, but within a month I found most stuff that was unique to being new. At about the four month mark I took off cruising and the problems I had were typical. Having a great dealer is the most important thing you can do. I've had them on the phone several times and because of their experience often knew the problem immediately. An example, the Yanmar stopped charging. The local expert said the almost new alternator needed to be overhauled. A call to the dealer and he said the most common issue was a poor connection at the combiner/isolator. A little sandpaper to remove a touch of corrosion and re tighten and I was off. As pcav just said, you will still have problems after a year, so don't worry too much after a couple months. Enjoy cruising.

[Nyodyssey410]

Thanks for the advice.

We did not order the factory inverter since we got the generator and was thinking of adding it afterwards. What are your thoughts on that? Are we better off getting it from the factory and have it incorporated to the boats overall systems?

[Fbfisher]

Get the inverter, and a large house battery bank, so you’re not relying on the generator every time you need electricity from something that requires a plug into an outlet (e.g., microwave, tv, vhf charger, etc.)

Cheers!

[Zzmeyer]

Don't know factory or aftermarket. Easy to get a quote locally. As Fbfisher said, I strongly recommend an inverter. I would say 95% of my 110 usage when not at the dock is through the inverter and we use a lot of low amperage 110 every day.

[Nyodyssey410]

I was going to try and save some $$ and buy a 2k pure sine wave inverter that has two outlets. It’s less than 700 while the factory option is 3,700

[AnfreRich]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

The motor is simple, but there is a great big hole in your bow to deal with, plus issues of anodes and fouling. Bowthrusters aren’t simple cheap devices.

I have to say I don’t agree with your 40 foot rule. I used to have a 41 footer, back in the days when only 50+ footers needed bowthrusters. I was often accused of having a bowthruster, but in fact handling a boat even in Solent marinas and mooring fields is very simple when you get used to it. Of course, 41’ felt big to me being used to 35-38 footers, but within a few weeks it was second nature.

Buying a 50’ boat without a bowthruster I had originally budgeted for one very early on. Luckily for me finding someone who would be able to haul the boat out and do the job proved nearly impossible (at least anywhere near my home port). The boat felt enormous the first couple of days. But within a month of managing not to hit anything I now find no difficulty backing into slips, manoeuvring in tiny fishing docks with limited depth, mooring by industrial fuel docks never intended for sailing boats. You get used to what you have so quickly, especially if you’re prepared to be careful when appropriate and firm with the throttle when that’s what’s called for.

I’m not sure how much a bowthruster would cost for this boat. Probably of the order of $20k NZ, which is around the cost of a pair of nice new sails. I know which l’m buying.

I’m sure it’s a personal choice, but to me bowthrusters just aren’t worth the money, as long as you know how to handle a boat at close quarters.

I used to agree with this when I owned an X Yacht with single rudder.. BUT now have a Sunfast 3600 with twin rudders.. and whilst we would never have a bowthruster on that boat (always plenty of excellent crew on board), I would think twice about owning a 40ft cruising boat with twin rudders and no bowthruster, manoeuvring in cross winds and tides with no prop wash is very very tricky!!!

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by AnfreRich

I used to agree with this when I owned an X Yacht with single rudder.. BUT now have a Sunfast 3600 with twin rudders.. and whilst we would never have a bowthruster on that boat (always plenty of excellent crew on board), I would think twice about owning a 40ft cruising boat with twin rudders and no bowthruster, manoeuvring in cross winds and tides with no prop wash is very very tricky!!!

Agree!! Using prop wash and FWD/reverse alternately to keep boat in place, most single rudder fin keel boats don’t need thrusters, though they are nice.
Dual rudders, or even a prop far away from the rudder- yikes if a quick burst of FWD thrust can’t be directed onto rudder.

[Pete O Static]

Having had both keel stepped and deck stepped masts. I much prefer deck stepped. For some reason many think that a keel stepped mast is safer but the mast step typically lives in salty bilge water and should there be a failure of any kind, the partners at deck level will do nothing for you. If the step itself fails while living its life in salty bilge water, the potential for the mast base to swing around and take out bulkheads is real. You will always be chasing leaks around the mast boot at the partners. I finally had to use a wax toilet seal to stop mine.

The deck stepped mast is able to breath, doesn't live in salty bilge water, is easily inspected, no leaks into the cabin, and if it fails, will likely leave the interior of the boat along with bulkheads, in tact. The compression strut transmits all the vertical load to the keel but at least if there is a failure, it will be at deck level and not potentially below the water line.

I currently have a Jeanneau and generally find the interior finish to be lacking when compared to something like a Bavaria, particularly the older ones. The Hanse interior reminds my of Ikea but that seems to be the trend these days.

[DeValency]

Agree with this post! I also have the two settings. On my Farr 40, a keel stepped and the Contest 43 deck stepped.
Absolutely zero issues with the deck stepped mast setup and continuous leaking on the Farr keel stepped - pumping the bilge is a weekly task. The Contest bilges are dry as an old bone....

As for the interior wood/plastic work. I love modern boats and I hate to pay x2 for those with the stunning, solid real wood work (Hallberg Rassy, Najad, Contest...). While lighter wood tones are preferred for me, (over my reddish mahogany at the Contest), white plastic interior and all kind of composed wood like (e.g.IKEA style) is a real turn off - boat shows are a great place to compare...

As for the original discussion topic. If the only options are Hanse or Beneteau/Jeanneau, I would definitely go with the French. - I think they are built better.

Originally Posted by Pete O Static

Having had both keel stepped and deck stepped masts. I much prefer deck stepped. For some reason many think that a keel stepped mast is safer but the mast step typically lives in salty bilge water and should there be a failure of any kind, the partners at deck level will do nothing for you. If the step itself fails while living its life in salty bilge water, the potential for the mast base to swing around and take out bulkheads is real. You will always be chasing leaks around the mast boot at the partners. I finally had to use a wax toilet seal to stop mine.

The deck stepped mast is able to breath, doesn't live in salty bilge water, is easily inspected, no leaks into the cabin, and if it fails, will likely leave the interior of the boat along with bulkheads, in tact. The compression strut transmits all the vertical load to the keel but at least if there is a failure, it will be at deck level and not potentially below the water line.

I currently have a Jeanneau and generally find the interior finish to be lacking when compared to something like a Bavaria, particularly the older ones. The Hanse interior reminds my of Ikea but that seems to be the trend these days.

[Tillsbury]

Originally Posted by AnfreRich

I used to agree with this when I owned an X Yacht with single rudder.. BUT now have a Sunfast 3600 with twin rudders.. and whilst we would never have a bowthruster on that boat (always plenty of excellent crew on board), I would think twice about owning a 40ft cruising boat with twin rudders and no bowthruster, manoeuvring in cross winds and tides with no prop wash is very very tricky!!!

Very good point. I agree and would probably specify a bow thruster with twin rudders.

[DeValency]

Well, you can add another engine and prop. One per rudder.. .
Or - the cheap option - install a transom thruster.

QUOTE=Tillsbury;2969160]Very good point. I agree and would probably specify a bow thruster with twin rudders.[/QUOTE]

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Pete O Static

Having had both keel stepped and deck stepped masts. I much prefer deck stepped. For some reason many think that a keel stepped mast is safer but the mast step typically lives in salty bilge water and should there be a failure of any kind, the partners at deck level will do nothing for you. If the step itself fails while living its life in salty bilge water, the potential for the mast base to swing around and take out bulkheads is real. You will always be chasing leaks around the mast boot at the partners. I finally had to use a wax toilet seal to stop mine.

The deck stepped mast is able to breath, doesn't live in salty bilge water, is easily inspected, no leaks into the cabin, and if it fails, will likely leave the interior of the boat along with bulkheads, in tact. The compression strut transmits all the vertical load to the keel but at least if there is a failure, it will be at deck level and not potentially below the water line.
.....

There is a reason for keel stepped mast to be used when maximum mast performance/efforts are needed and that is why all race boats or true performance boats use them (or use very expensive and strong carbon systems to compensate the efforts as on the Swan 50).

That story about the mast living in salty bilge water is nonsense unless you don't use proper seal systems and anyway why salt water? If salt water is coming in you have a big problem in your boat and has nothing to do with the mast.

The only water that can enter is rain water. If you have that problem on your boat I suggest the use of spartite or one of the similar mast sealant products on the market.

Spartite Mast Partner Support/Sealer Kits - Mast Boots & Tape - Rigging Accessories - Sailboat Hardware & Rigging - Downwind Marine

[Pete O Static]

Originally Posted by Polux

There is a reason for keel stepped mast to be used when maximum mast performance/efforts are needed and that is why all race boats or true performance boats use them (or use very expensive and strong carbon systems to compensate the efforts as on the Swan 50).

That story about the mast living in salty bilge water is nonsense unless you don't use proper seal systems and anyway why salt water? If salt water is coming in you have a big problem in your boat and has nothing to do with the mast.

The only water that can enter is rain water. If you have that problem on your boat I suggest the use of spartite or one of the similar mast sealant products on the market.

Spartite Mast Partner Support/Sealer Kits - Mast Boots & Tape - Rigging Accessories - Sailboat Hardware & Rigging - Downwind Marine

Sorry but I beg to differ. I don't mean to be rude but to say that "all race boats or true performance boats use them" is not at all accurate. Many performance racing boats are being built with deck stepped masts and neither of the mentioned boats really qualify as such anyway.

As for salt water in the bilge, lets use your example of a Swan 50 or any boat that utilizes a stuffing box for that matter. If it is not weeping while in use, chances are, it is too tight. No bilge pump will ever get all of the water out of the bilge sump. If I see a shaft drive boat with a bone dry bilge, I see a potential issue with the shaft being scored. As such, to say that if you have salt water in your bilge you have bigger problems is also, not accurate. If you don't know how or why it got there, then maybe.

For rain water, yeah sure, you could spend $100 plus on Spartite to replace the wood shims at the partners, or you could spend $1 on a wax toilet seal to pack the gaps. The fact that wood shims are used to keep the mast straight at the partners should indicate to you their structural integrity, which is zero. Mast bend is just as easily induced regardless of where the mast is stepped.

[Alita49DS]

OK then with your theory. Try this for reality. In Elba this morning there was torrential rain and hail. The Beneteau 60 next to me in Portoferraio has a keel stepped mast. My Jeanneau 49DS deck stepped. Who was moaning about water in bucket fulls coming in. Hint : not me.