Hartley South Seas 45 delivery/transport

[haiqu]

Originally Posted by Jryder

I heard they were hard to get in the nanny state but had planned to go a bit further up the hawkesbury but without a boat I hadn't got that far :-)

The Hawkesbury is fairly shallow in a lot of places. Unlike the boats you're accustomed to, a Hartley has a keel. I'd stay well away from Cogra Bay anyhow. :-)

You can't move a South Seas by road from Townsville, period. Check the NSW Transport site for the reasons. Apart from being a traffic hazard and requiring escort vehicles the whole way and needing to travel in off-peak hours and daylight only, the mast and rigging would have to come down. Just forget it, way too hard.

I bought a 35' Hartley Queenslander off eBay in May and it came with a private swing mooring in Woolwich. Such deals do come along occasionally. The mooring rental coats me $711/year from NSW Maritime. To acquire a mooring you go on a waiting list for your preferred area and when your turn comes up, buy the mooring tackle and have it delivered to the right spot, then bring in the yacht. Many places have no wait at all, see the NSW maritime website for the current list. A swing mooring at a marina will cost $300pcm usually.

As to the question of living aboard, you're legally permitted 21 nights aboard per year at a swing mooring in Sydney Harbour. However, if you sail off to some place over the other side and drop the hook you're not at the mooring any more and so this doesn't count. As I understand it, as long as you keep moving around and don't obstruct shipping there should be no issue at all.

Haulouts are expensive and, as you've been told, you may not be able to work on the boat yourself at the haulout facility. The answer is to have a diver scrape barnacles - or do it yourself if you can - and maybe sail to cheaper places (Botany Bay or Newcastle?) for major work. That means finding a boat that has a sound hull and, if possible, one that has been recently antifouled. I got lucky on both counts there, the previous owner had just spent $4,000 having the bottom and mast painted in late 2010.

I'd suggest a South Seas would be too much sailboat for a beginner. Get yourself a 25'-to-30'er and learn to sail first, then progress from there. I have very little experience myself, but I'm planning to retire onto the yacht and will have all the time in the world to learn, and I don't have to please anyone but myself.

Good luck with your search. It's worth the effort.

[haiqu]

Addendum:

Mooring tackle needs to be inspected annually, at a cost of maybe $100. I don't carry insurance currently but at most a third party property cover should be a few hundred bucks, especially if you take it out where you hold your car insurance. The trick is to describe the yacht as "steel composite" and not "ferrocement" when requesting a quote.

You'll most likely need at least that level of cover to enter most marinas, and definitely for a haulout facility.

Rob

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by haiqu

Addendum:

. The trick is to describe the yacht as "steel composite" and not "ferrocement" when requesting a quote.


Rob

I suspect that the insurer will absolutely love that one! In the event of a claim, they say something like "that is a ferro cement yacht, and we do not insure ferro cement yachts. You did not describe it accurately and we will not honour your claim".

IMO trying to fool an insurer is a bad call, for they will surely use it against you when the chips are down.

Cheers,

Jim

[Jryder]

Yes,

I would imagine that it would result in the claim not being honoured.

On the other stuff..i can't realistically see myself, my partner and a young daughter liliving aboard a 25 to 30ft yacht. The beam for most of those boats would make it too tight and cause issues.

I get that the difficulty level increases but I would be learning on other smaller boats anyway.

If I can't liveaboard then it's pointless as it's just another high monthly cost with occassional use. To use it more I would have to move closer to the cbd which again is cost prohibitive.

In terms of haul outs I am lucky enough that my neighbour was a navy clearance diver and is still a pro diver specialising in this sort of work. I also dive so prob can ease my costs a little.

Sounds like if I was going to do this I would need to move to a liveaboard friendly state? this is fine because I absolutely hate living in sydney anyhow.

[haiqu]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I suspect that the insurer will absolutely love that one! In the event of a claim, they say something like "that is a ferro cement yacht, and we do not insure ferro cement yachts. You did not describe it accurately and we will not honour your claim".

Not fool them so much as bypass their inherent prejudices. The suggestion was mainly aimed at finding some kind of insurance note to enable the use of marinas and haulouts on a short-term basis.

I wouldn't rely on any insurance company to honour anything, which is why I don't have insurance. But as to whether a claim would hold under that description, I'd think so since it's entirely accurate. The strength of a ferro yacht lies in the armature, which is steel.

Rob

[haiqu]

Originally Posted by Jryder

Sounds like if I was going to do this I would need to move to a liveaboard friendly state? this is fine because I absolutely hate living in sydney anyhow.

Well, you can forget VIC and NSW then. Try Far North Queensland. As long as your occupation can be shifted to a low density area you'll never regret the decision. If you need to be near a city to find regular work - as I did, being an electronics tech - then there's always NZ.

I lived in Sydney during the 70's and loved it, but it sure looks different these days. The term "rat race" comes to mind.

It will be way more inconvenient to live aboard a 45'er than a 30'er when maintenance issues and mooring costs are taken into account. Personally I think that if a 30' yacht is too small for you then you're probably not ready to live aboard yet. I saw a Hartley Tasman - sans engine - recently go for $2,650 and it had plenty of room for a small family.

You will need to throw away a lot of stuff you don't really need, and learn to live on an energy budget. But if the wife can't live without aircon and microwave ovens, get used to being a wage slave.

I can also point you towards a live-aboard Brisbane city marina berth that costs $40,000 and has 22 years left on the lease, but monthly costs to the marina management and local council make it almost as expensive as renting. The upside is that if you take off on an extended cruise the short-term rent for the mooring will offset a lot of those costs.

Rob

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by haiqu

Not fool them so much as bypass their inherent prejudices. The suggestion was mainly aimed at finding some kind of insurance note to enable the use of marinas and haulouts on a short-term basis.

I wouldn't rely on any insurance company to honour anything, which is why I don't have insurance. But as to whether a claim would hold under that description, I'd think so since it's entirely accurate. The strength of a ferro yacht lies in the armature, which is steel.

Rob

G'Day Rob,

We were "self-insured" for many years, but finally succumbed to the need for third party insurance for the very reasons you describe. But I do expect that our insurer would indeed cover our asses in the event of a claim. Spending several hundred (or more) dollars a year just so one can enter a marina is pretty steep when it should cover liability issues as well.

So, you " think so since it's entirely accurate. The strength of a ferro yacht lies in the armature, which is steel." If their policy specifically excludes f/c construction, you will be stuffed no matter how you obfuscate the construction of your boat.

IIRC there is at least one Aussie firm that will insure f/c boats. It has been discussed at length here on CF in the past but I do not remember just where.

Your lack of confidence in insurance is not without some merit. There have been a lot of anecdotes about such things, but our vicarious experience (OPBs and their claims) has been that they do pay up for legit claims. Not always willingly, though!.

Cheers,

Jim

[DumnMad]

I had no problem insuring ferro hull boat with NZI Marine Insurance, although I did send them a surveyors report on the hull construction. I bought subject to me getting satisfactory insurance.

[chall]

First off it's great dream and I wish you the best of luck.

Secondly, a casual scan of this forum will show you that there are a myriad of different opinions and philosophies on boats and sailing, covering all extremes of life. What has worked here for one guy for 25 years another guy wouldn't do in a pink fit. Take all advice onboard, but ultimately what will work for you and your family is something only you can judge, and it very well might be alot different to what works for me and mine.

Having said all of that I now say this.

My 1 year old daughter, wife and myself lived aboard and sailed a 35ft sailing yacht from Sydney to FNQ and back last year( we are now back on land in Sydney, i'm not into living aboard unless the boat is going somewhere).
I too was worried about the size of the yacht, I get serious cabin fever living in an apartment, but for some reason when on the boat we seemed to adapt very readily to the space and it was a complete non issue.

I know people who own a great ferro yacht, I also know of people who have sailed ferro yachts considerable distances. When properly constructed, they are very solid boats. The problem is that it is difficult/nigh impossible to figure out which ones were properly constructed.
I don't own one, largely because I like fibreglass more as a boat building material, but I wouldn't discount ferro completely forever more.
The one great advantage of Ferro is the price and trust me the sunset looks the same regardless of how much you pay for it.

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

IIRC there is at least one Aussie firm that will insure f/c boats. It has been discussed at length here on CF in the past but I do not remember just where.

I am pretty certain that you are correct and that there is ONE insurer in OZ who will cover Ferro. I am also at least 92% certain that I know this because I have seen their ad's in the QLD publication 'Coastal Passage'.

[Jryder]

Great to hear from someone that has done what we want to do and looking forward to getting into sailing the coast.

It's impossible for anyone to know anyone's state of mind or what is going to be acceptable in terms of living and I'm not taking anyone's opinion good intentioned or otherwise as the way I should be living my life :-)

We might take a trip out and check out a few boats anyway and see what we could live with and whether I could sail them once I have the skills.

In any case a move up North or South to Adelaide is on the cards so I can investigate those places a little more and while checking out the place there will always be a bit of time to go boat shopping :-)

I think the thing with ferro boats seems to be hang on to them for a long time, use 'em well and don't be upset if they depreciate like a mofo?

Anyway I am sure that ferro may be on the way to being sold to someone else anyway :-)

[Jryder]

Originally Posted by haiqu

Well, you can forget VIC and NSW then. Try Far North Queensland. As long as your occupation can be shifted to a low density area you'll never regret the decision. If you need to be near a city to find regular work - as I did, being an electronics tech - then there's always NZ.

I lived in Sydney during the 70's and loved it, but it sure looks different these days. The term "rat race" comes to mind.

It will be way more inconvenient to live aboard a 45'er than a 30'er when maintenance issues and mooring costs are taken into account. Personally I think that if a 30' yacht is too small for you then you're probably not ready to live aboard yet. I saw a Hartley Tasman - sans engine - recently go for $2,650 and it had plenty of room for a small family.

You will need to throw away a lot of stuff you don't really need, and learn to live on an energy budget. But if the wife can't live without aircon and microwave ovens, get used to being a wage slave.

I can also point you towards a live-aboard Brisbane city marina berth that costs $40,000 and has 22 years left on the lease, but monthly costs to the marina management and local council make it almost as expensive as renting. The upside is that if you take off on an extended cruise the short-term rent for the mooring will offset a lot of those costs.

Rob

Thanks Rob,

great Sydney and general info there and you are dead right..not ready for live aboard as we are yet to step foot on a yacht of any size :-)

I had a look at that Hartley 28 and think just by virtue of it's layout it would be a bit too small. So will start checking out some 32ft+ boats with maybe 36ft being the sweet spot for a couple and baby?

Very easy to get discouraged and it's just a matter of positioning everything so it slots in nicely.

Cheers

Jayson

[Tomm0]

That yacht is still for sale, FYI. Why did you decide against it?

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Boracay

It's a long way from Townsville to Sydney, against the prevailing weather. I've heard experienced cruisers describe the NSW coast as having the worst weather they encountered anywhere in the world.

While I agree with many of Boracays points, the NSW coast is surely not particularly threatening. I can only wonder where the folks he is quoting have sailed!

Cheers,

Jim

[haiqu]

That Tasman for sale for $2,650 last year came up on eBay again three months later. I bought her in December and am now a dual Hartley owner. Spending my winters in Sydney didn't appeal while I was repairing the Queenslander so now I have something to do during the wet, cold months down south.