Hobbyhorsing: something like a flopper stopper?

[SVKemily]

Hi everyone,

I have noticed that my new (to me) Mason 32 hobbyhorses (or pitches, or rocks fore-and-aft) quite a bit more than neighboring boats in the marina. I understand that the spoon bow shape can be especially prone to hobbyhorsing.

The previous owner has told me that when loaded for cruising it sits about 5" lower in the water, which means it would have displaced approximately 3700lbs more. From what I have read, concentrating that extra ballast near the beam could reduce hobbyhorsing.

I'm wondering whether it's possible to supplement the effect of that ballast with something like a flopper stopper, deployed off the bow or stern. I haven't found any accounts of anyone trying this, or any recommendations for or against.

Has anyone tried it, or does anyone have any non-ballast hobbyhorsing countermeasures to share?

Thanks in advance!

[BillKny]

5" down on her lines? Wow... that's an awful lot of "stuff."

About the only control you really have for hobbyhorsing is to get as much weight in from the bow and stern as you possibly can. Distribution from side to side doesn't matter, but everything out at the ends is BAD. Do you have a dinghy on davits, maybe??? More anchor chain than you need? Anything else extra, added bow or stern?

[Adelie]

Hobbyhorsing or rolling?

Hobbyhorsing is often product of too much weight in the ends, not the beam.

[Lepke]

You could use flopper stoppers, make sure they're attached to something solid it can't damage with constant use.

[SVKemily]

Hobbyhorsing. Sorry, by "concentrate ballast near the beam" I meant concentrate it in the middle, between the bow and stern. Still working on my nautical terminology.

Thanks for the responses so far! I will definitely try to concentrate any weight I add in the middle, and good to know that adding a flopper stopper at the bow won't cause anything terrible to happen. Any other tips and tricks?

[tkeithlu]

I can't get my head around the idea of a flopper stopper off the bow. It sounds like a lot of drag and some weird handling,but maybe someone who has done it can speak up.

Do a real review here. The boat was not designed to hobbyhorse. Changes since then have done it. First move should be to get rid of everything that a) weighs, and b) isn't needed for you to enjoy your boat. A five inch change in water line is one hell of a lot of weight. Then, take a look at what's stored where. Are there canned goods at the ends and bedding in the middle? Has someone added a tank at one end for extra fuel or water? Could you live with a nylon plus chain rode rather than an all chain? Where is that dinghy, radar, and solar panel?

My suspicion is that if you tidy up your weight distribution, the problem will go away.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by tkeithlu

I can't get my head around the idea of a flopper stopper off the bow. It sounds like a lot of drag and some weird handling,but maybe someone who has done it can speak up.

Do a real review here. The boat was not designed to hobbyhorse. Changes since then have done it. First move should be to get rid of everything that a) weighs, and b) isn't needed for you to enjoy your boat. A five inch change in water line is one hell of a lot of weight. Then, take a look at what's stored where. Are there canned goods at the ends and bedding in the middle? Has someone added a tank at one end for extra fuel or water? Could you live with a nylon plus chain rode rather than an all chain? Where is that dinghy, radar, and solar panel?

My suspicion is that if you tidy up your weight distribution, the problem will go away.

I think he means "in the marina." Underway is another issue.


Otherwise, what you said. Also look aloft. Was an in-mast furling main added? Anything else heavy?

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, SVKemily.

Heavy ends produce a slower, steadier [frequency], but more extreme [amplitude] pitch.
Lighter ends producer a faster, jerkier, but less extreme pitch.
Pick your poison.
The flopper-stopper concept has some merit, at dock/anchor.

[BillKny]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, SVKemily.

Heavy ends produce a slower, steadier [frequency], but more extreme [amplitude] pitch.
Lighter ends producer a faster, jerkier, but less extreme pitch.
Pick your poison.
The flopper-stopper concept has some merit, at dock/anchor.

While true literally, a boat without a lot of weight in the ends typically has a "hobbyhorse" frequency that is much faster than large waves. The small waves that match the resonant frequency tend not to impart enough energy to get the boat moving much, if at all.

The lower frequency of a boat that is heavily laden at the ends more closely matches with the larger, longer waves. When the the frequencies of the boat and the waves come close together, the system resonates and moves a LOT more.

[SVKemily]

Thanks for the advice and the welcome! It's good to hear that there is cause to be optimistic that adjusting the weight distribution will decrease the hobbyhorsing. To be clear, the boat is currently almost empty of gear, the tanks are empty, the dinghy is not loaded on the davits and no solar panels or radar are installed. I don't see anything heavy on the boat right now that looks unnecessary or oversized to my eyes, either above or below decks. It is hobbyhorsing in the marina. I haven't noticed a problematic amount of hobbyhorsing when under way so far but have not been out in more than 3' waves.

Consistent with the previous owner's statement that it sat 5" lower when he loaded it for cruising, there is about that amount of antifouling showing above the waterline on average and he did provide some pictures of the boat under way in which no antifouling is showing. I agree that that seems like a surprising amount of displacement just for gear, water and diesel.

So, maybe I need to fill the tanks, bring enough heavy objects on board to hide the antifouling below the waterline, and move the objects around to see what effect they have on the motion. In the likely event that my actual cruising gear doesn't weigh that much, I can supplement it with some well-secured internal ballast, for now.

[JPA Cate]

The dinghy in davits will increase the hobbyhorsing in a seaway, and if your slip is bumpy, it will increase the hobbyhorsing there, as well. It is a load out on a lever arm.

Ann

[Don C L]

So I am guessing you are speaking of the Mason 33, since I don't think they made a 32, right? When you speak of hobby horsing in the marina, are you talking about in a slip or out on a mooring? I think that if the boat is new to you and you are noticing this action in relation to what other boats are doing, I would not worry about it or turn to flopper stoppers unless it is unusually uncomfortable for some reason. Once loaded, load it heavy centrally as everyone is saying, as much as you can. Once under sail, and heeled over, THEN you can judge whether the hobby horsing is something concerning, which I doubt it will be. It is not uncommon for older boats with short waterlines and more rocker to hobby horse more than modern designs but it need not be a deal breaker IMO. It can slow a boat down to be hobby horsing when plowing upwind, but that comes with the territory for most of those older designs. I have only admired Masons from afar and they have a very good reputation, I think you are in for a great time once you get sailing! I wonder what the PO was putting in the boat to lower her 5" ?

[TrentePieds]

Quote: "The previous owner has told me that when loaded for cruising it sits about 5" lower in the water, which means it would have displaced approximately 3700lbs more."

A Mason 32 (should that be "33"?) will have about a 25 or 26 foot LWL and about a 10 foot BWL. She would also have longer overhangs than more modern boats and a quite antique midship section, so how did you arrive at the 3,700 lb figure to settle her 5 inches?

I haven't run the numbers, but maybe you have?

TrentePieds

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Quote: "The previous owner has told me that when loaded for cruising it sits about 5" lower in the water, which means it would have displaced approximately 3700lbs more." ...

According to Carl's Sail Calculator:
➥ Sail Calculator Pro v3.54 - 3200+ boats

The 'Mason 33' requires 983 pounds per inch of immersion [PPI], suggesting 4915 Lbs would be required to sink it 5".

According to Ted Brewer:
➥ https://www.tedbrewer.com/yachtdesign.html

POUNDS PER INCH IMMERSION (PPI): The weight required to sink the yacht one inch. It is calculated by multiplying the LWL area by 5.333 for sea water or 5.2 for fresh. The PPI usually increases as the hull sinks into the water as the LWL area is also increasing due to the shape of the hull above water.

[SV__Grace]

How is hobby horsing while tied up at your marina dock a problem?

It might not be a problem you need to solve unless you live on your boat or spend a lot of time on it in the slip, and if you did, it wouldn't be empty and more vulnerable to react to wind and wave action!

I don't think comparing to other boats is a good reference. The motion of your boat will be impacted by it's weight, design, wind direction, wave direction, windage, etc. and in a marina there are many different boats facing different directions with different factors impacting their motion.

Personally, I'm more concerned with hobby horsing at anchor, which happens when the waves kick up. Mediating this for me starts with a riding sail so I weathercock to wind/waves (I use my mizzen partially unfurled) and then adding weight to the bow by letting out more chain before the snubber and if needed clip a kellet (I use a balled up length of chain and a carabiner) to the anchor chain 20' or so from the bow. If I'm really desperate I try the drogue strategy, starting with a small one hanging on a line from the bow and in really rough conditions I've used my full size drogue, which does a good job of dampening hobby horsing in fresh conditions at anchor.

Any of these strategies, as well as flopper stoppers (which I've used in the past for yawing at anchor on a Nonsuch, which has a wide, flat hull) you can try in your marina slip, but are you on the boat enough for "fixing" this problem to be necessary?