Holland 30 for bluewater cruising?

[Intifada]

I've come across a cheap Holland 30 racer/cruiser for sale, its main possible drawback for my needs is that it's fin keel and spade rudder. I've seen the insurance survey from a year ago and apart from some other relatively minor things it seems to be in order.
I had ideally been eyeing something skeg hung with full keel but the price is really good on this. Just want to know opinions on this for bluewater? Thanks

[CassidyNZ]

There are 1000’s of fin keel/spade rudder combinations sailing around, I’ve seen many on my trips so clearly they can be and are cruised. Certainly most French/European production boats for decades and even now are specced like that.

But coincidentally those two features are non-negotiables in my selection of cruising boats - I would entertain neither, my boat below.

[Jim Cate]

But coincidentally those two features are non-negotiables in my selection of cruising boats - I would entertain neither, my boat below.

So, what do you call that keel? Looks like a shallow draft fin to me... certainly not a form of "full" keel.

Jim

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

So, what do you call that keel? Looks like a shallow draft fin to me... certainly not a form of "full" keel.

Jim

I wouldn’t consider it a fin keel. Front-to-back at the root measures about 13ft, over a quarter of the boat length, nearly a third of the LWL.

First picture, my idea of a fin keel (Beneteau 44)

Second picture, my boat (Morgan 44)

Not really the same thing? YMMV.

It is also fully encapsulated in the hull, the great majority (I use this term because I just know that someone will produce a “real” fin keel that is also encapsulated) of fin keels are bolt-on.

But you are correct - it is not a full keel which I also would exclude from the spec of any boat I would buy.

[syPhilos]

Originally Posted by Intifada

I've come across a cheap Holland 30 racer/cruiser for sale, its main possible drawback for my needs is that it's fin keel and spade rudder.
Just want to know opinions on this for bluewater?

We can fill pages and pages discussing this - and if you search the forum, you'll find more then you'll have time to read

The short version: everybody has an opinion, and when you look at the boats that are actually sailing out there you'll see that there's boats out there supporting every possible opinion.

In the end, it's just a personal preference and opinion. Which boat do you trust to get you to your destinations? I don't know about you, but I feel much happier on a boat I trust then on a boat someone told me I should trust ...

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Intifada

Just want to know opinions on this for bluewater? Thanks

What is your definition of "blue water"?

What about brown water? or even green/grey often the colour of the North Atlantic?

Seriously how far are you going? this boat is a rated 1/2 Tonne club race boat. Once upon a time, crewed by 6 big lads it would have been quick. Whether that will make a good cruising yacht is debatable.

[tarian]

Originally Posted by syPhilos

We can fill pages and pages discussing this - and if you search the forum, you'll find more then you'll have time to read

The short version: everybody has an opinion, and when you look at the boats that are actually sailing out there you'll see that there's boats out there supporting every possible opinion.

In the end, it's just a personal preference and opinion. Which boat do you trust to get you to your destinations? I don't know about you, but I feel much happier on a boat I trust then on a boat someone told me I should trust ...

Spot on

[TrentePieds]

As Pete7 asks: "What is your definition of "blue water"?

I think we could be of far more service to you if you specify with far greater precision what it is you want use the boat for. Where do you want to sail her? Seattle to SanFrancisco is certainly "blue water". So is Stavanger to Newcastle-on-Tyne and Poole to Algeciras. Does crossing from Port Hardy to Skidegate count as "blue water"? Each of these passages would place different demands on the boat, and not least on the skipper.

So what in particular, is it you would be concerned about in regard to taking this boat out of the sight of land? Is it her structural integrity? Is it the fitness of her rig and suit of sails? Is it her ability to handle heavy weather?

If you give us a clearer idea of what it is you intend to do with the boat, we'll have a sounder foundation for offering pointers.

All the best,

TrentePieds

[roverhi]

Owned a Holland designed 30' boat built in Florida. Not identical to yours as it was an early IOR design with a different deck. Boat sailed well, seemed to be well built and capable of crossing oceans but definitely not a cruising boat. I had visions of doing the Single Handed Transpac with it. The cost of mandated gear and upgrades even before I tackled the rehab. ended those dreams.

Interior was pretty stripped out with little storage for other than sail bags and lines. Galley was minimal and as was the tankage. Actually, on mine, tankage was non existent as it had been built with foamed in place aluminum tanks and salt water had gotten in completely corroding out the backside of the tanks. The gas tank had already been removed when I got the boat. When I tore out the water tank, found it had only three sides.

Depending on how your boat is fitted out, doubt it would be a goos long term cruiser unless you plan on living the simple life.

[Christian W.]

There's a very entertaining and useful account of a single-handed transatlantic race in a Holland 30, written by Stuart Woods, called Blue Water Green Skipper (pub.Stanford Maritime 1977).
For your interest as a prospective Holland 30 buyer, the author's direct and detailed dealings with Ron Holland and co. as the boat was being built might prove informative. Good book!

I also once met a Holland 30 sailor who came into Hobart from West Coast US. He loved his ship.

[Frank 101]

Originally Posted by Intifada

I've come across a cheap Holland 30 racer/cruiser for sale, its main possible drawback for my needs is that it's fin keel and spade rudder. I've seen the insurance survey from a year ago and apart from some other relatively minor things it seems to be in order.
I had ideally been eyeing something skeg hung with full keel but the price is really good on this. Just want to know opinions on this for bluewater? Thanks

A Holland 30 won the Sydney to Hobart in 1979 if that counts. Have a look at Ron Holland in Wikipedia for more information.

[mawtty]

I bought a Northshore 33 weekend racer.
It is fast and very good to windward.
I want to go cruising so i need to fit:
1. bigger fuel tank
2. more water capacity
3. decent fridge
4. dodger
5. self steering vane
6. roller reefing jib
7. solar panels
8. feathering propeller
9. decent stove/oven
10. gas bottles
11. boarding ladder
12. larger anchor winch and chain
Almost the price of the boat extra and five years of do it yourself work.

Better to buy a cruising boat ready to go!!!

[syPhilos]

Originally Posted by mawtty

Better to buy a cruising boat ready to go!!!

That's like saying "Just buy a magical unicorn"

[nortonscove]

Originally Posted by mawtty

I bought a Northshore 33 weekend racer.
It is fast and very good to windward.
I want to go cruising so i need to fit:
1. bigger fuel tank
2. more water capacity
3. decent fridge
4. dodger
5. self steering vane
6. roller reefing jib
7. solar panels
8. feathering propeller
9. decent stove/oven
10. gas bottles
11. boarding ladder
12. larger anchor winch and chain
Almost the price of the boat extra and five years of do it yourself work.

Better to buy a cruising boat ready to go!!!

Some of this stuff seems more personal than necessary. Much of it could be overcome with rather little effort if you wish to get going. Many items can be worked on while sailing. My first boat had no furler, alcohol stove, limited fuel capacity but small efficient diesel, and no refrigerator. A cooler with ice will get you across a fairly good distance. You can also choose foods that don't need such care. Cruising when you start isn't usually crossing oceans.