How Big Does Our Flag of Registry Need to Be?

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

This past covid19 summer, we saw quite a few USA boats up here NOT flying their [emoji631]flag... [emoji848]

Yeah, but the RCMP were patrolling even remote anchorages looking for them.

[jmschmidt]

US state "registered" vessels, as opposed to US Coast Guard "documented" vessels, are not required to fly the national ensign while underway.

[Stu Jackson]

I lived in the US until 2016 when I moved to Canada and became a permanent resident.


We flew a US flag or ensign from our backstay, on this boat tied to a loop of line on the adjustable backstay. It stayed above our heads and was a great wind indicator, too. When I got too old to balance standing on the perch seat and binnacle to hook it up, I bought a flag pole and have used that since about 2014.


When we moved here and I got my BC license, we bought a new Canadian flag in late 2017 or early 2018.


One thing I've noted that is very different is that Canadians tend to leave their flags up all the time, day or night, rain or shine. As a result, we see a lot of truly disappointing examples of a national flag hanging limply and in distressed condition. Americans tended to take their flags in at night and rarely were US flags or ensigns flown on unattended boats.


For some bizarre reasons, the idiots in the US who protest the most against "protestors" tend to wear flag designs as right wing adornments, like T shirts and the like, which, to me, only shows their true hypocrisy.

[Tupaia]

I understood that a vessel on the high seas without a national flag is considered stateless under maritime law and my not relay on the diplomatic protection of its home nation. (Geneva Convention I think details this). Hence the tradition of striking ones colours when other ships were sighted, especially in times of maritime disputes. I believe that flying a courtesy flag in a foreign nation's territorial waters also bestows some protection under the GC.

[Montanan]

A vessels ensign/national flag is properly flown from its stern or back stay.

If you find that to be in the way there is the alternative of flying such as one of your sails, the vessels nationality is rather clearly communicated when it displays such; surely not confused with merely a courtesy flag.

When sailing in the territorial waters of your vessels nationality, there is generally no real need to display the vessels nationality. When you sail in international waters or the high seas, displaying your vessel's nationality is appropriate under UNCLOS and may well be required under the specific laws of such nation state that grants such nationality.

UNCLOS

Article 91

Nationality of ships

1. Every State shall fix the conditions for the grant of its nationality to ships, for the registration of ships in its territory, and for the right to fly its flag. Ships have the nationality of the State whose flag they are entitled to fly. There must exist a genuine link between the State and the ship.

2. Every State shall issue to ships to which it has granted the right to fly its flag documents to that effect.


Article 92

Status of ships

1. Ships shall sail under the flag of one State only and, save in exceptional cases expressly provided for in international treaties or in this Convention, shall be subject to its exclusive jurisdiction on the high seas. A ship may not change its flag during a voyage or while in a port of call, save in the case of a real transfer of ownership or change of registry.

2. A ship which sails under the flags of two or more States, using them according to convenience, may not claim any of the nationalities in question with respect to any other State, and may be assimilated to a ship without nationality.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by bobgarrett

From my experience, if you are American or Dutch as big as possible but not quite trailing in the water. For all other according to the size of the flag staff.

I thought that size was limited to UK yachts.

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

Yeah, but the RCMP were patrolling even remote anchorages looking for them.

Yes, but... many were actually here legally (or quasi legally):
- dual citizens...
- some were already here before border closing
- "going to Alaska"... saw one in Desolation at least 2 nights (not exactly "direct to Alaska")

Still, why not fly their flag?

(Less suspicious to openly fly flag. We met one boat who had been in Canada since March and had even received an extension from CBSA. These folks (boat from East Coast state) were regularly having people come over to enquire. Perhaps if they had been flying their US flag they might have been less bothered.)

[Paul L]

OP,
If you are travelling "worldwide" then you should fly a flag. Not flying one adds to suspicion by officials. (you can be boarded offshore by USCG without them getting approval from Canada, for example). Flying a flag sometimes helps you meet other cruisers too. It does not need to be large. Our flag is only about the size of a courtesy flag and tied to the backstay.

[Dsanduril]

There's an interesting article (despite a few errors) here on the effects of not flying a flag in international waters and the reach of US and other drug laws. The bottom line:

Against this background, it is obvious that a ship does not necessarily have to fly a flag on the high seas. However, it may be subjected to over-extensive drug enforcement laws by not doing so.

The flag is not a requirement to establish nationality, but it is the easiest way to do so, at a distance (although AIS may be taking that role).

A vessel must obviously have an obligation to assert immunity by showing its flag, presenting its documents, or making some other outward or oral claim to a nationality; otherwise it waives that immunity. International law clearly contemplates that the time to establish identity is at or prior to boarding. The Supreme Court has ruled that the burden of proof of nationality is upon the vessel...

Since the flag I would fly puts me under the jurisdiction of world's policeman regardless of my location I don't have a dog in this hunt. If I had the option to fly a flag that would reduce the chance of random boardings by those same folks then I might do so.

[Montanan]

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ze-208149.html

Reference to previous discussion regarding Canadian flag size.

[Dogscout]

What's with all the non patriotism? Whining about flying the flag of your country, you speak like its inconvenient even.

Wow, maybe they dont want you either!

[Montanan]

I perceive that the ensign flown by the Pride of Baltimore II seems proportional and appropriate. It also can be readily viewed and discerned from a distance.

I've seen some vessels which ensigns look like they are flying a handkerchief, thereby being a total why bother as to signaling the vessel's nationality.

[CassidyNZ]

I would have thought that if you are a registered vessel sailing in the waters of the country you’re registered in, a national flag would not be required. In the countries I have lived in that is the situation.

I suppose there are some countries that explore insecurity or arrogance about their nationality that would insist on local boats flying the national flag but in my experience one flies a national flag when you’re away from home.

Size? I reckon as long as the nationality of a vessel is discernible from a respectable distance, the size is not critical. Once again, in the places that I have lived, no one questions the size.

[Nord Sal]

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

Yes, but... many were actually here legally (or quasi legally):
- dual citizens...
- some were already here before border closing
- "going to Alaska"... saw one in Desolation at least 2 nights (not exactly "direct to Alaska")

Still, why not fly their flag?

(Less suspicious to openly fly flag. We met one boat who had been in Canada since March and had even received an extension from CBSA. These folks (boat from East Coast state) were regularly having people come over to enquire. Perhaps if they had been flying their US flag they might have been less bothered.)

I was one of those US boats in BC this past September relocating from southeast Alaska down to Washington, USA. I flew the US ensign throughout my passage. I never did see a single RCMP vessel despite what I heard on the wx channels about RCMP patrols.

I have a good friend who moved his boat from a yard in Bellingham to southeast Alaska this past August. He told me he encountered RCMP vessels twice and said that both times they made no effort to contact him even though it was clear he was a foreign vessel. He thinks they just didn't want any contact.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Montanan

I perceive that the ensign flown by the Pride of Baltimore II seems proportional and appropriate. It also can be readily viewed and discerned from a distance.

I've seen some vessels which ensigns look like they are flying a handkerchief, thereby being a total why bother as to signaling the vessel's nationality.

Yeah, that's a great ensign... for a tourist ship who is trying to attract attention and customers.

However, I'll bet you a few beers that they don't fly such a large flag when on passages. Too expensive, too much trouble to tend, and if sailing deep angles, likely to foul in the running rigging.

Jim