Hunter, Catalina, Benneteau Debate

[Rumrace]

Hahahahaha. That was good and so true.

We do tell things to the people we like
Years ago my neighbour came home with a Pontiac Aztec. I broke the news to him.

[StuartSailor]

The admiral, after 10 years of Tartan 37 ownership in which she cruised very little, just had an epiphany after a 10 day cruise from Miami and stay in Marathon. She likes cruising in pretty waters and says our boat is too small. She’s right. I LOVE my boat but am willing to sacrifice for my wife.

My budget says I need to look at the aforementioned production boats and was also wondering what the outside world thought of them in a preferred manner. I found the thread to be somewhat informative and have begun taking notes about specific brands/models, etc. But my biggest takeaway is that they’ll all serve me well if I’m fortunate to find one well maintained, in my budget and to my liking. And the Admiral’s of course!

We’re looking at 38 to 43 with an estimated budget of $150k. Now I just have to find out what’s good and bad about specific brands/models to be on the lookout when buying time is here.

In the meantime I’m trying to come to terms about putting my current mistress up for sale.

[Rumrace]

I can wrap my head around that.
Tartan is a production boat. They produce 2 “ Heritage “ yachts they state. Their option packages stack up like anyone else’s.
The 44 is a pretty hot looking machine for that style.
I don’t know where the cursed “ production boat” line in the sand is drawn Hanse produce waaaay less than Beneteau they look nothing alike but both production boats. Little Moody is a daughter of a production boat once removed.
Jeanneau is celebrating 70 custom 64 hulls sold and the cleaned up cockpit 65. Is 70 hulls a production boat or a successful one.
Seems more a label boats out of fashion, out of business or slowly dying from being overpriced for no reason calling successful design sailing leaders names cause they are Jelly.
You can buy a used Tartan as cheap as a used Benniteau or Catalina

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by StuartSailor

The admiral, after 10 years of Tartan 37 ownership in which she cruised very little, just had an epiphany after a 10 day cruise from Miami and stay in Marathon. She likes cruising in pretty waters and says our boat is too small. She’s right. I LOVE my boat but am willing to sacrifice for my wife.

My budget says I need to look at the aforementioned production boats and was also wondering what the outside world thought of them in a preferred manner. I found the thread to be somewhat informative and have begun taking notes about specific brands/models, etc. But my biggest takeaway is that they’ll all serve me well if I’m fortunate to find one well maintained, in my budget and to my liking. And the Admiral’s of course!

We’re looking at 38 to 43 with an estimated budget of $150k. Now I just have to find out what’s good and bad about specific brands/models to be on the lookout when buying time is here.

In the meantime I’m trying to come to terms about putting my current mistress up for sale.

Well, your Tartan 37 is on the preferred Offshore Boat List that Mahina used to have on their site.

No mention of the three boats this thread concerns though as good Offshore Boats.

http://mahina.com/wp-content/uploads...e-Cruising.pdf

https://www.sailnet.com/threads/upda...ry-2008.39936/

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

Your individual experience is indicative of only one thing - your individual experience. Cars like boats often have problems when poorly maintained.

The former can be more extensive than that based on individual ownership. I’ve seen plenty of Mitsu Evos blow up motors, but never owned one. I know 944 turbos like to blow off and dump oil all over the track. And I’ve seen not every 1980s beneteau, but enough to say that when they leak the bulkheads suck up water and delaminate far worse than Hunter or Catalina.

On the latter- I’ve said that twice in this thread. God knows I’m living it now, and I have no doubt that we’d have spent the same money fixing this one as buying one in better condition. That said, by the end of summer I’ll know this one inside out.

[goboatingnow]

Every long lived boater builder has lemons either specific builds or sometimes a particular model. Bavaria has so many minor variants of the basic form , you need to know the range well to pick out the gems.

But in general all these boats serve their 80% purpose well, are long lived, if maintained and in bigger sizes can happily cross oceans , if that’s your “ thing “

After that we’re arguing about the colour of the teak in reality

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

I can wrap my head around that.

Tartan is a production boat. They produce 2 “ Heritage “ yachts they state. Their option packages stack up like anyone else’s.

The 44 is a pretty hot looking machine for that style.

I don’t know where the cursed “ production boat” line in the sand is drawn Hanse produce waaaay less than Beneteau they look nothing alike but both production boats. Little Moody is a daughter of a production boat once removed.

Jeanneau is celebrating 70 custom 64 hulls sold and the cleaned up cockpit 65. Is 70 hulls a production boat or a successful one.

Seems more a label boats out of fashion, out of business or slowly dying from being overpriced for no reason calling successful design sailing leaders names cause they are Jelly.

You can buy a used Tartan as cheap as a used Benniteau or Catalina

I’d gladly take any boat over no boat. I find these internet debates which state certain boats are “better” to be silly. But, boats are different and it’s certainly worth knowing those differences to make an informed decision when buying.
Having chartered a bunch of times (J/B), and owning a 35 year old Tartan- there is definitely a different level of build quality- mainly in bulkhead tabbing, interior furniture which holds up much better, cabinetry hinges/locks, and lack of deck leaks etc due to better processes. And, expensive labor things like elimination of core in key places on deck and in hull. And it reflects in the difference in new prices and used prices.

Whether that’s worth it to anyone or not is up to them- there is no single correct answer but the differences go deeper than nameplate. I could easily been happy with another boat and lots of the reasons I chose my current boat were only rational to me.

And, there probably is no reason for production boat companies to try to build a boat that still looks and works great when 35 years old- when their focus and business model is on entry level price point for new boats. I bet very few new J/B/C buyers still own their boat 10-15 years later.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by malbert73

I’d gladly take any boat over no boat. I find these internet debates which state certain boats are “better” to be silly. But, boats are different and it’s certainly worth knowing those differences to make an informed decision when buying.
Having chartered a bunch of times (J/B), and owning a 35 year old Tartan- there is definitely a different level of build quality- mainly in bulkhead tabbing, interior furniture which holds up much better, cabinetry hinges/locks, and lack of deck leaks etc due to better processes. And, expensive labor things like elimination of core in key places on deck and in hull. And it reflects in the difference in new prices and used prices.

Whether that’s worth it to anyone or not is up to them- there is no single correct answer but the differences go deeper than nameplate. I could easily been happy with another boat and lots of the reasons I chose my current boat were only rational to me.

And, there probably is no reason for production boat companies to try to build a boat that still looks and works great when 35 years old- when their focus and business model is on entry level price point for new boats. I bet very few new J/B/C buyers still own their boat 10-15 years later.

I think it’s a mistake that bav/benny/Jenny cater for entry price points , that’s not the case.

Remember the high end makers ( very few who are left ) cater for an extremely niche buyer ,yards like Sunbeam, Regina , Amel build a handful of yachts a year , almost custom built to customer demands. A huge cost for them is extremely expensive craft labour in places like Sweden , Austria and Germany along with significant environmental compliance costs. None of this cost is going into the fabric of the boat.

Secondly high end “ brands “ have to charge more to create that “ elusive feel “

On the other hand J/Bav/Ben have considerable automation , and can produce a us better at a lower price point , they offer minimalist customisation do the yacht remains basically standard

Certainly as they appeal to newer boat buyers they have to stay with the “fashion “ so the interiors need constant refreshing to stay “ on point “. Remember people splashing out 250k-500k on a new 40 footer will demand a certain “ look “

As per your comments my Bav 36 has two previous owners over its 16 years.

In my experience ( having now owned 7 boats ) very few owners stay with the same boat ,whether that an Amel or a Beneteau , for more then about 7 years.

In fact high end buyers often shift high end boats with alacrity often after a few years , possible the interiors start to look dated etc.

In my experience as I said there are as many old J/B/Bv boats around at 30 years as there are surviving HR

Ps all my bulkheads are solidly glassed in !!!

[boatman61]

Forget the rest.. get the best..
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...-a-264086.html
[/SIZE]

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I think it’s a mistake that bav/benny/Jenny cater for entry price points , that’s not the case.

Remember the high end makers ( very few who are left ) cater for an extremely niche buyer ,yards like Sunbeam, Regina , Amel build a handful of yachts a year , almost custom built to customer demands. A huge cost for them is extremely expensive craft labour in places like Sweden , Austria and Germany along with significant environmental compliance costs. None of this cost is going into the fabric of the boat.

Secondly high end “ brands “ have to charge more to create that “ elusive feel “

On the other hand J/Bav/Ben have considerable automation , and can produce a us better at a lower price point , they offer minimalist customisation do the yacht remains basically standard

Certainly as they appeal to newer boat buyers they have to stay with the “fashion “ so the interiors need constant refreshing to stay “ on point “. Remember people splashing out 250k-500k on a new 40 footer will demand a certain “ look “

As per your comments my Bav 36 has two previous owners over its 16 years.

In my experience ( having now owned 7 boats ) very few owners stay with the same boat ,whether that an Amel or a Beneteau , for more then about 7 years.

In fact high end buyers often shift high end boats with alacrity often after a few years , possible the interiors start to look dated etc.

In my experience as I said there are as many old J/B/Bv boats around at 30 years as there are surviving HR

Ps all my bulkheads are solidly glassed in !!!

They do target an entry level price point, but that's not automatically a bad thing. They all take multiple avenues to achieve that price point. Building in large quantity with minimal options, etc. helps get costs down. And then from there they limit material and design choices, etc. to keep things on the price target.

Not everyone needs a no-compromises boat. Plenty of us can do just fine with less as long as we're aware of what a given boat can and can't do, etc.

[Rumrace]

Yes Malbert 100%
I’ve had a dozen power boats. Two bigger than my first sailboat. I like my Jeanneau. Zero complaints. I’m told by sailors who know tons more it’s a good sailing boat. It a performance and I had no idea what that was until sailing forums.
Forums like this cost me money. I was informed “ scumbag French boats come with cheap ballcocks” I set out to find them all. I had the one for the engine changed the mechanic said it was fine and don’t pay attention to Internet nobs. But now I have the monster bronze one.
I learned my Jeanneau had a stronger grid than Beneteau. I’ve read about Jeanneau factory screw ups they fixed.
I know Sea Ray, Donzi, Doral, Cigarette, Fountain, Carver boats inside out. Never heard any off their owners talk garbage about each other. All of us would question Cruisers INc lack of walkarounds or Bayliner insisting on 400,000 chopper gun hulls a year but both companies made a lot of folks happy and on the water.

My favourite Benny Hill skit is “ Learning all the Time”

[donradcliffe]

There are construction differences that you can't see until you hit the surf.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/g...edy-flna743063
https://www.sail-world.com/Australia...?source=google


vs

https://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2...r-anniversary/


The Hunter 376 was in tiny pieces. The Sydney 38 was lifted off the rocks holed, but essentially intact.

[Rumrace]

I agree. This Jeanneau is out of here soon
I want a bigger Jeanneau. If Beneteau brings out a 44-46 something First I’m in but truthfully too old for a Racer. My Grandson would love the 53, free.
I think it’s sheer looks. I love the 51 SO.
Laminates are getting better every year and Europe leads the pack on better laminates. Gluing endangered teak strips to hide fibreglass don’t impress me. I don’t like wood boats and would prefer my boat is not hauling around 1000 pounds of endangered forests. I have Kevlar bands in spots to strengthen key areas. Didn’t know that.
Ikeas paper furniture did fall apart but now they pump out quality kitchens 40 years later. I don’t know one French German Italian Finnish Danish boat with broken or decayed interiors.
I know Beneteau made some poor kitchen hinges in the 1980-90’s. The hinge parts are now reproduced by the public domain 3D printing world. Each oddball Beneteau hinge can be printed in ASA or PC which are stronger than the original white metal. Frankly I don’t know a boat maker using solid wood anywhere except trim.
Even my cockpit and toe rails are fake teak!
I love painting them with a dry brush when my neighbours get out tape n teak debates.
Benniteau is the leader the unquestionable business leader in marine. If other manufactures don’t have some vague claim to be better they are in trouble.

[Rumrace]

I was in Sydney in 1998 for the Sydney to Hobart Race. Some of the best boats built got torn to shreds and they didn’t hit another ship.

Miami to Bimini the worlds toughest powerboats drill right though a sailboat bathtub hull and keep going.
A 1994 Cigarette holds the record. She’s called cover girl. 38’ no interior at all. 18 boats racing her sank or broke. Donzi Formula Scarab ripped apart. Hustler hand laid vacuumed Kevlar put a drive shaft through the hull.
One of the key Benni bash go to is a poorly repaired Beneteau loosing a keel. I watched a really high quality Tiara Yacht get punched by a SeaDoo. The SeaDoo fella died on impact. The Tiara sank in quick order with the PWC inside it. Tiara is one of the best boats built. Up there with Hinckley and Riva. Doesn’t matter much.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

I was in Sydney in 1998 for the Sydney to Hobart Race. Some of the best boats built got torn to shreds and they didn’t hit another ship.

Miami to Bimini the worlds toughest powerboats drill right though a sailboat bathtub hull and keep going.
A 1994 Cigarette holds the record. She’s called cover girl. 38’ no interior at all. 18 boats racing her sank or broke. Donzi Formula Scarab ripped apart. Hustler hand laid vacuumed Kevlar put a drive shaft through the hull.
One of the key Benni bash go to is a poorly repaired Beneteau loosing a keel. I watched a really high quality Tiara Yacht get punched by a SeaDoo. The SeaDoo fella died on impact. The Tiara sank in quick order with the PWC inside it. Tiara is one of the best boats built. Up there with Hinckley and Riva. Doesn’t matter much.

In a bad enough situation, pretty much any boat will have issues. Different builds will just have different failure modes or different survivability thresholds for various scenarios.