Hunter, Catalina, Benneteau Debate

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

I was in Sydney in 1998 for the Sydney to Hobart Race. Some of the best boats built got torn to shreds and they didn’t hit another ship.

I too was in Sydney in 1998, but wisely decided to go on the Coffs Harbor race. It was one of those races that tests the design and construction of boats. Out of 115 starters, 5 sunk and only 44 finished.

The original entry is hard to find, but one of the boats that sank was listed as a Jarkan/Tartan 40 and one of the finishers is listed as a First 38, which I assume was a Beneteau. Maybe the Aussies have more details.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

There are construction differences that you can't see until you hit the surf.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/g...edy-flna743063
https://www.sail-world.com/Australia...?source=google


vs

https://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2...r-anniversary/


The Hunter 376 was in tiny pieces. The Sydney 38 was lifted off the rocks holed, but essentially intact.

These are simply one of instances under explicit situations that arnt even compatible. It reality they show nothing or prove nothing

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

Yes Malbert 100%
I’ve had a dozen power boats. Two bigger than my first sailboat. I like my Jeanneau. Zero complaints. I’m told by sailors who know tons more it’s a good sailing boat. It a performance and I had no idea what that was until sailing forums.
Forums like this cost me money. I was informed “ scumbag French boats come with cheap ballcocks” I set out to find them all. I had the one for the engine changed the mechanic said it was fine and don’t pay attention to Internet nobs. But now I have the monster bronze one.
I learned my Jeanneau had a stronger grid than Beneteau. I’ve read about Jeanneau factory screw ups they fixed.
I know Sea Ray, Donzi, Doral, Cigarette, Fountain, Carver boats inside out. Never heard any off their owners talk garbage about each other. All of us would question Cruisers INc lack of walkarounds or Bayliner insisting on 400,000 chopper gun hulls a year but both companies made a lot of folks happy and on the water.

My favourite Benny Hill skit is “ Learning all the Time”

The sea cock thing is a classic internet troll topic largely carried on my American posters who do the “ snob bronze “ thing coupled with appalling ABYC bonding practice

My Bavaria was hauled after 14 years in the med ( one of the saltiest seas in the world ) she had been habitually on shore power and spent 11 months in the water each year

The owner listening to internet trolling has every seacock replaced . They sent two old one to be tested. The test house cut them open and inspected them , they pronounced both of them well within spec and in satisfactory condition !!!

People rabbiting on about “ blue water “ boats and bleating on about obscure designs , produced in tiny numbers by a now most likely out of business builder , simply are engaging in snobbery discussions.

Thank god for production builders because 99% of people would never get afloat otherwise and there would be no secondhand market nor would ordinary sailors cross oceans

If you want a “ premium “ brand boat , that’s great but stop spouting nonsense about production builders some who are the most successful builders in the world.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Correction !

Todays job makes 113 Beneteau's.

The first 2022 Beneteau Oceanis 54 in Canada

How did the survey go?

[Joli]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The sea cock thing is a classic internet troll topic largely carried on my American posters who do the “ snob bronze “ thing coupled with appalling ABYC bonding practice

I don't consider proper seacocks a snob thing, I consider them to be a safety issue.
https://marinehowto.com/seacock-failure-testing/

Curious, how do you inspect the hull/grid integrity after a hard grounding?
https://youtu.be/C3RzxLW7t1U

I'm not saying don't buy a production boat but be aware of the pluses and minuses.

[rslifkin]

On the seacock concern, I wouldn't accept a boat built without proper flanged seacocks. Ball valves threaded right onto a thru hull are just unacceptable. However, as long as there was a good way to inspect for condition, I'd be less fussy about material. I would just have to be good about inspecting thoroughly on a periodic basis to determine if they were degrading or not.

[Rumrace]

I want to add some funny comment but I ran out of them dragging out the wife’s scrap book.
I was a Fan of Stand Aside Gave them a cheers from the holiday inn roof from Coogi Beach. I don’t give a rats ass what make she was. He probably has fake teak toe rails like mine. Gives you a bit more respect for that expensive life raft in cheap luggage.

Coffs Harbour we had Morton Bay Bugs for lunch. What a treat. We drove to cairns from Sydney. I was instructing night dives in Sydney and had a short gig out of Cairns on the reef. In Surfers Paradise at the Southport Yacht Club Mustang Power Boats and Beneteau had new boats on display. The Mustang rep insisted we take out the 40 to compare to my Sea Ray. It was a more powerful boat than my Ray. Very similar in appearance and being Aussi I knew the hull was great. Love you folks your almost Canadian.

[sailorboy1]

My boat has bronze ball valves threaded onto thru fitting. They are 21 years old and are just fine. Am currently in the yard and inspected and saw no reason to replace any of them.

Surely i will sink once back in the water, not.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

My boat has bronze ball valves threaded onto thru fitting. They are 21 years old and are just fine. Am currently in the yard and inspected and saw no reason to replace any of them.

Surely i will sink once back in the water, not.

The ball valves threaded on thing isn't so much a durability issue, but a damage risk. If some piece of equipment breaks loose or you fall against one while looking at a problem in rough seas, there's a risk of snapping the thing off (or cracking the hull around it). There's a reason for the ABYC recommendation about how much lateral force a seacock should handle (500 lbs for 30 seconds IIRC) and without a flanged setup, it's unlikely to survive that (or even a lesser, more realistic load from a problem situation).

[Rumrace]

We moved house lake and boat. From 3 fridges 2 395 Cats a swim platform you can pee off to a smaller sailboat. We moved closer to our grandkids. Turns out my oldest Grandson is a sailor. I never set up the Autonav on the Sea Ray. No use for it in Georgian Bay dodging 30,000 islands.
My Grandson figured it out on the Jeanneau.
These forums made me paranoid about cheap production boat ballcocks. So against the mechanics recommendation I replaced one. The others I believe require taking apart furniture so he inspected them and said they are cheap but like new. He said they don’t survive long in salt water.
Doubt I’ll have this boat long enough to worry about the other 4. To be honest a larger boat intimidated me. Can’t tell how long it’s been since I ran a single. 1980’s
Hanging around either side of the boat two wheels beside each other was pretty intimidating. The Sea Rays seats are cozy. I’ve had bunches of munchkins asleep in the Nav love seat running at 25n
Just wear are the backrests in sailing anyway. So my wife hated the idea I’m on the hook to fumble through it.
Learned lots about brands and their faults from nasty sailors in forums.
I haven’t learned a thing. I’m looking at 2 bigger Jeanneau. They are purdy.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

The ball valves threaded on thing isn't so much a durability issue, but a damage risk. If some piece of equipment breaks loose or you fall against one while looking at a problem in rough seas, there's a risk of snapping the thing off (or cracking the hull around it). There's a reason for the ABYC recommendation about how much lateral force a seacock should handle (500 lbs for 30 seconds IIRC) and without a flanged setup, it's unlikely to survive that (or even a lesser, more realistic load from a problem situation).

I will try to remember that next time I fit my whole body through the opening into the 2'x2'x2' space that the valves are and decided to stand on them.

[Rumrace]

Just to clarify. The factory ballcocks are brass and from what I know about metals is the weakest in line. The new one is bronze and on a platform epoxied to the hull. The others are just balls floating.
The only one I’m concerned about is the illegal macerator. I disabled it but as I read the rule book it’s not allowed to be in the boat. They have been banned in Canadian Great Lakes for ever. And now same rule in US for a long time too. Another person told me just leave it disabled in case you go south and need it. I’ve torn one out of a power boat I bought in Indiana and ran home. The Canadian marine unit were a bit more aggressive and insisted I cork the macerator through hull.
I’m sure when AC-75 Patriot tossed their electronics through the side of the hull they hadn’t planned on flipping.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

On the seacock concern, I wouldn't accept a boat built without proper flanged seacocks. Ball valves threaded right onto a thru hull are just unacceptable. However, as long as there was a good way to inspect for condition, I'd be less fussy about material. I would just have to be good about inspecting thoroughly on a periodic basis to determine if they were degrading or not.

The proof is in the eating of the Pudding not what “ you “ perceive as yiu own personal engineering standards , tru hulls in Europe in GRP are near universally done by means of threaded tru hulls and ball valves. These have been in use for decades without issue.

The rest is in fact engineering snobbery. Based on subjective personal opinion not backed by actual real world usage experience

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I will try to remember that next time I fit my whole body through the opening into the 2'x2'x2' space that the valves are and decided to stand on them.

Indeed , clearly NA boats are all built so you risk standing on a ball valve , yet every SINGLE one of my seacocks , could not be subject to flying objects or me standing on them , , three are in a smaller sealed compartment under the sink , 2 are on the side of the hull behind a settee enclosed in ply

Simply BS to suggest these seacocks will be capable of being subjected to anything like those side forces. It’s a nonsense spec

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Joli

I don't consider proper seacocks a snob thing, I consider them to be a safety issue.
https://marinehowto.com/seacock-failure-testing/

Curious, how do you inspect the hull/grid integrity after a hard grounding?
https://youtu.be/C3RzxLW7t1U

I'm not saying don't buy a production boat but be aware of the pluses and minuses.

In Europe people in repair yards burst out laughing when you bring up the NA seacock bronze nonsense. The yards will point to literally hundreds of yachts sitting in the water all year round plugged into the mains. You simply don’t see seacocks being replaced

As I said mine were replaced ( the yard thought the owner was crazy ) and two were cut open and tested , pronounced fine after 16 years

Like I said one or two “ scare “ stories or appalling ABYC bonding practice , simply don’t translate into damming a whole family of boats.