Hunter, Catalina, Benneteau Debate

[Rumrace]

Amazing assumptions on CE and ISO. Hilarious really.
Wagner brakes detroit use to be OEM for Corvette They don’t meet SAE but claim to now made in China. 12 portable heaters were tested bought from Walmart USA. only one the Phillips met UL and Phillips said they were leaving that market.
It’s UL and enabling China with facades of past products which is in question.
It’s putting 1600 chemicals in food Europe and Canada have banned.
We just are not going to agree on things especially assumed

[Rumrace]

Yup Corvette Brembo Italy cause they is not one metal slug in the USA for them

[sailorboy1]

I will ask again.

Why do posters on forums feel the need to worry about other peoples boats. If they don't like them why can they not just not get one of those boats? Why do they feel they need to “prove” they are right and and a builder/owner of another boat is wrong?

If you don't like a boat just don't buy one and move along. If all you going to be is a cheerleader for someone else who believes the same as you, is that a moral victory?

These threads really are so silly.

[Indolent58]

[Rumrace]

Hahahaha about time someone admitted it.
Me Newt

[Rumrace]

I don’t think it’s the topic which count much Sailorboy. They search a place to vent. It’s their therapy time and we been entrusted to be their therapist. Boy are they in trouble.
While you get comedians out of jokes just plain making stuff up it’s still funny.
Sadly there are quite a few syndromes involved. I recall meeting with customer service and reception at my old firm one day. We had a long discussion about how rude people can be behind a phone or phone mail. Well the internet has the same brave folks. Bet they are all quiet at the clubs they are in. They want to borrow your hose when you packing to take off. They have at least one negative topic to discuss at every event. I miss at least half of all club events boating, Shame.
There are a couple parasite fact checkers in group out to insult as many as they can with innuendo just to feel superior. Watch them they are funny and so often wrong the burn out is always tragic.
For one reason or another certain brands have crossed our ethical boundary. I hate GM and Honda large. There is absolutely no logical argument to cure me. I not only don’t listen i don’t care. Saying that could offend someone so much cause they own one they go on the defensive. Sorry.

Frankly I’m enjoying the thread. Happy the ranters got it off their chests. Learned how little people know about Jeanneau construction including me. That a ballcock or not realizing the rest of the planet might be as sophisticated be the driving force of simple minds is expected.
Being oblivious to global trade damage is another delicate area seems to generate some amazing average minds in denial.
The silent once announced boycott against GM in Canada was clear. The Ont premier talked about a custom Chevy Van with a big screen to cruise his fat ass in. Voters told him no. You’ll be fired and we will crush the truck. There is no argument. You could chat it up for years on the internet. Not going to change a thing.

[Tetepare]

One thing I do NOT like about our Hunter is the solid cleats. We use dock lines with looped ends, and all I can do is slip the loop over the cleat. If inclement weather is anticipated I’ll put another line properly on the cleat. With the old Catalina I could slip the loop through the cleat then up and over, and that was never going to come off.

[Rumrace]

I’d actually love some critique cause I don’t know Sailboats well at all. In power boats there is much less smack talk. While Bayliner gets universal quality questions they sure made lots of our friends happy.

I’m giving serious thought to the 440 and 490 SO Jeanneau. My Jeanneau was a transitional hull build. A step to the current evolution. Kevlar roving cleverly slipped in key spots. The coach roof deck cockpit one of the worlds largest two piece injected moulds. Injected Epoxy connections. The chassis bonding to cradle furniture rather than it be structurally. The shallow keel with the Performance mast performing so well on both boats. While their hulls are similar to mine the running chine has been improved. Jeanneau just replaced my boat but so far it has not to have affected depreciation. I think Jeanneau must have had lower end furniture in high traffic fleet rentals. I noticed they don’t carry Sun Odyssey as a model. I have zero furniture damage. I have a new friend with a early 90’s Benniteau and his interior is dark wood. While dark wood interiors don’t appeal to me the boats interior seems perfect.

So without spending another 200K on an Epoxy X Yacht hull I’ll never need what other hulls compare to these boats and hulls. The new hulls have massive weight saving. Compare the older 51 to the 49 weight.
Catalina don’t have anything as good looking in our view. Hunter we looked at a 40 when it came out and rejected the helms. We don’t like the Arch on Beneteau or the main sheet routing. The bull nose on coach roofs on Beneteau Catalina Hanse don’t convey that clean entry Jeanneau and other have. Silly fashion thing more than thinking like a boater. I want my canvas minimal low and clean uncluttered when the canvas is away. I don’t want some huge stainless welded frame bolted on the boat to lift Dinghy and panels. I love the hideaway davits. The leak problem now addressed. I don’t want a garage which will only fit a deflated Dinghy.
I hate Jeanneau’s lighting. Don’t like one piece. The led strip lighting is junk. Their led recessed are semi recessed dome lights.
The wall sconces reading lights nav station all stink. The only high quality recessed I’ve seen on a production boat was Hanse . They had used a twin square led fixture made in Norway. It’s architectural grade. The rest of the Hanse had home depo level lighting. I’ve replaced most of my lighting.

[sailorboy1]

I have a Hunter, but don't know all the models and only have ever been on 1 other friends model. I have had sundowners once on a Bene so that is the only one of those I have been on. Same for Catalina.

I never have understood how on these threads there are so many experts who have spend enough time on enough models from the manufacturers to feel they can condemn them in general. It used to be a sport here.

[rslifkin]

It's tough to really condemn an entire brand as bad boats. But it's certainly not hard to find flaws with certain brands and how they do certain things. No manufacturer is immune to that, it's just a question of what things they do in a sub-optimal way or a way that only some people like (even if it's good from a technical perspective). Many of those things can be corrected for those concerned, others would make some people avoid a certain boat. That kind of stuff is good to know when shopping though.

[Rumrace]

Agree. I’ve never seen a bad Hunter which wasn’t abused like any boat.
I specifically didn’t like the cockpit. The helm seats were a board out over the transom held up with a stainless tube with3 screw half way down the transom. I’m a delicate power boater use to being behind a warm windscreen. You can’t put us old men in transition to sail hanging out there. The rest of the boat was beautiful.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

The ISO standards were developed by the European builders to protect them from competition, not to protect the consumers. They allow Brass thru hull fittings. Their CE certifications are defined by what the builders can easily produce, not what is suited to go across oceans or bounce off the occasional rock.

This may be your opinion. It’s not the truth.

The RCD largely came about through lobbying from U.K. marine industry sources composing that national boat standards primarily in Italy , France and Germany was preventing the “ free “ movement of goods.

As a result the standards were created and national standards were swept aside.

Your interpretation is one of the typical kid informed nonsense largely emanating from the Anglo sphere that has no idea how EU legislation works or what prompts it.

The RCD ISO standards do not mandate a particular material. What they do say is that after 5 years of service life the basic characteristics of the seacock ( as specified in another iso standard must be unchanged )

As I said despite the NA bull that’s floats around , zillions of European boats sitting in one of the saltiest seas in the world typically plugged into 230 vac are not having their valves fail or are yards engaged habitually in replacing such valves

I have outlived my own personal experience.

If you adopt EU bonding practice and AC practice there is no evidence that conventional European seacocks are failing within 15-20 year lifespans and loads are much older then that.


As for the oceans and rocks , you might try experiencing ocean crossings and note the boats in the crossroads with you,full to the brim with Euro production models.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating , and it’s clear these boats are strong ( enough ) well built and up for the job their owners intend for them

Anything after that is just armchair sailors jaw jawing.

[Rumrace]

Being in a small market it seems the only new boats are on order or sold. Since Covid we’ve only hid out in the thousand islands and restocked in Kingston. Waved at the US but could visit our favourite haunts friends and fiends. We bought a new aluminum hull Zodiac at the 2019-20 boat show not knowing it was a super spreader event. Never got around to buying a new motor for awhile cause Yamaha just said leave a message. That was our last boat show. We had 4 sailing cruisers and 5 billion power boats. First time I got to walk under a Dufour Hanse Benniteau and Jeanneau same time. I thought the unsealed plywood edges in all of them a personal insult.
I thought the quarter births in the Hanse did not scream 1.3 million but I know the guy who bought it and they are sweethearts so
Sssssh.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

I’d actually love some critique cause I don’t know Sailboats well at all. In power boats there is much less smack talk. While Bayliner gets universal quality questions they sure made lots of our friends happy.

I’m giving serious thought to the 440 and 490 SO Jeanneau. My Jeanneau was a transitional hull build. A step to the current evolution. Kevlar roving cleverly slipped in key spots. The coach roof deck cockpit one of the worlds largest two piece injected moulds. Injected Epoxy connections. The chassis bonding to cradle furniture rather than it be structurally. The shallow keel with the Performance mast performing so well on both boats. While their hulls are similar to mine the running chine has been improved. Jeanneau just replaced my boat but so far it has not to have affected depreciation. I think Jeanneau must have had lower end furniture in high traffic fleet rentals. I noticed they don’t carry Sun Odyssey as a model. I have zero furniture damage. I have a new friend with a early 90’s Benniteau and his interior is dark wood. While dark wood interiors don’t appeal to me the boats interior seems perfect.

So without spending another 200K on an Epoxy X Yacht hull I’ll never need what other hulls compare to these boats and hulls. The new hulls have massive weight saving. Compare the older 51 to the 49 weight.
Catalina don’t have anything as good looking in our view. Hunter we looked at a 40 when it came out and rejected the helms. We don’t like the Arch on Beneteau or the main sheet routing. The bull nose on coach roofs on Beneteau Catalina Hanse don’t convey that clean entry Jeanneau and other have. Silly fashion thing more than thinking like a boater. I want my canvas minimal low and clean uncluttered when the canvas is away. I don’t want some huge stainless welded frame bolted on the boat to lift Dinghy and panels. I love the hideaway davits. The leak problem now addressed. I don’t want a garage which will only fit a deflated Dinghy.
I hate Jeanneau’s lighting. Don’t like one piece. The led strip lighting is junk. Their led recessed are semi recessed dome lights.
The wall sconces reading lights nav station all stink. The only high quality recessed I’ve seen on a production boat was Hanse . They had used a twin square led fixture made in Norway. It’s architectural grade. The rest of the Hanse had home depo level lighting. I’ve replaced most of my lighting.

In the med with solar being dominant you will see very elaborate arch constructions and all sorts of stainless clutter. In fact I find it strange the Euro production builders don’t build in solar panel support from the get go. It can’t be far away.

Main sheet arches are all the rage in 40 + boats especially as the beam is carried so far aft these days that cockpit based sheet termination isn’t feasible.

Interior is largely a function of fashion , acres of wood is out of fashion , pastels are back in. Angular replaces round replaces angular and so forth , a production boat has to appeal to both the sailor and inevitable his or her partner and perhaps their kids too.

The charter market has much less effect then people imagine , firstly Group Beneteau tends to create specific charter versions that can be considerably different to owners versions, large charter companies now commission dedicated versions of certain hulls. Of course these find their way into private hands but are not representative of an “ owners version “ boat.

Anyone in the charter business knows the basic boat must be strong , durable and capable of being sailed by idiots. Otherwise the boat simply will not survive. In no way is a charter boat “ lightly built “. It may be less ostentatious , but the basic craft will be well screwed together

[rslifkin]

The mainsheet traveler on an arch thing came from Hunter. They wanted to get the mainsheet out to the end of the boom without having to run it across the middle of the cockpit. Realizing that many people were putting biminis on sailboats anyway to get shade in the cockpit, they decided it made sense to just build a beefy arch to hold both the traveler and a bimini.