Hunter, Catalina, Benneteau Debate

[Rumrace]

“The retaliatory measures decided by the European Union in 2018 included a 25% tax on pleasure boats from the United States. The decision of the European authorities provided for a second stage on June 1, 2021, from which an additional tax would raise the tariff to 50%.“
This is the the Elephant in the room.
No one would suspect ordering a 4 million dollar yacht from USA. That during the build said nation would elect an administration which would attack every friendly economy know with no cause or result but broken agreements as old as liberty. enabaljng China with good old brand name no longer acceptable quality.
Europe pulled factories. BMW Audi totally changed plans. Japan said to Canada during free trade talk to not let US interfere.
There has been a Mead Lake full of trust lost will take a generation or more to repair.
This same fu2 tax and tariffs are in law affect Corvette and Cadillac sales in Europe the only part of GM most the world like.
If I buy a European boat from US I have to pay Canada 9%. If I buy the exact same boat from Europe no tax. I don’t get screwed on the exchange game either. I don’t pay a double brokerage fee from an affiliate international broker game.
So in case you’ve noticed a decline there are some hard core can’t be fixed don’t call us problems. When Beneteau announced closing their 36 year old factory they forecasted this market. The US no longer was a good location to supply that area because they’ve distanced themselves and damaged all their trade partners.
Heck Reagan caused 39% unemployment in Canada. It’s been our thing to be in control our ambitions since. The quiet Canadian boycotts slowly removes every offending brand. We’ve measured every American company since as consumers or those of us in industry. I was in lighting for 35 years I think. There are 10 US lighting companies moved production to China I just never talked to again. Little HE Williams they are real Americans with no questions asked service. The rest can eat dirt we don’t want facades.

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

This may be your opinion. It’s not the truth.

The RCD largely came about through lobbying from U.K. marine industry sources composing that national boat standards primarily in Italy , France and Germany was preventing the “ free “ movement of goods.

As a result the standards were created and national standards were swept aside.

Your interpretation is one of the typical kid informed nonsense largely emanating from the Anglo sphere that has no idea how EU legislation works or what prompts it.

The RCD ISO standards do not mandate a particular material. What they do say is that after 5 years of service life the basic characteristics of the seacock ( as specified in another iso standard must be unchanged )

As I said despite the NA bull that’s floats around , zillions of European boats sitting in one of the saltiest seas in the world typically plugged into 230 vac are not having their valves fail or are yards engaged habitually in replacing such valves

I have outlived my own personal experience.

If you adopt EU bonding practice and AC practice there is no evidence that conventional European seacocks are failing within 15-20 year lifespans and loads are much older then that.


As for the oceans and rocks , you might try experiencing ocean crossings and note the boats in the crossroads with you,full to the brim with Euro production models.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating , and it’s clear these boats are strong ( enough ) well built and up for the job their owners intend for them

Anything after that is just armchair sailors jaw jawing.

My own personal experience with brass and saltwater came when I outfitted my Bene to sail around the world. The 1985 French built Bene came with bronze fittings. I used a combination of brass and bronze fittings to plumb in new equipment like the watermaker, salt galley pump, and washdown pump, because it was hard to find bronze for the smaller bits. The brass turned pink, and I replaced it all within 5 years.

I replaced all through hulls and valves in 2005 when the boat was 20 years old. I was in Marmaris at the time, and asked the yard manager whether I should use the locally available fittings. He said that he didn't trust the Euro fittings and I should bring in real bronze from the USA. I flew back to the boat with a 40 pound duffle bag full of bronze.

https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/k...rwater-alloys/

[soopad00pa]

So, a thing that seems common in these threads is that production yards have good years, good models, etc and if you're lucky enough or savvy enough to catch em on a good day you get a good boat.

Along that line, anyone got any opinions of the Hunter twin keel boats? Specially, their more recent models with the condos on the inside. See link for an example...

Hunter Legend 36 I found on YachtWorld! https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/2004-hunter-legend-36-8315983/" target="_blank">Look-IRJDSUNE9932123321222xxeww-at-IRJDSUNE9932123321222xxeww-this-IRJDSUNE9932123321222xxeww-awesome-IRJDSUNE9932123321222xxeww-Hunter-IRJDSUNE9932123321222xxeww-Legend-IRJDSUNE9932123321222xxeww-36-IRJDSUNE9932123321222xxeww-I-IRJDSUNE9932123321222xxeww-found-IRJDSUNE9932123321222xxeww-on-IRJDSUNE9932123321222xxeww-YachtWorld!-IRJDSUNE9932123321222xxeww-https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/2004-hunter-legend-36-8315983/

Edit - dunno what the board widget did to that link. Here's just the copypasta version...

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/200...nd-36-8315983/

[Shanachie]

A lot of what sailors think of as bronze is actually corrosion-resistant brazz such as naval bronze.


This can be discovered through a close reading on the background materials. Manufacturers use the term bronze, even though the allot really isn't, as a marketing tool to re-assure buyers.


Nothing wrong with it. I had a naval bronze rudder shaft on a 40-year-old sailboat that had turned pink where the stuffing box sat due to dezincification. This is somewhat common.



It was still strong as hell. A metals expert told me to worry when the pink area started cracking and flaking.

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by soopad00pa

So, a thing that seems common in these threads is that production yards have good years, good models, etc and if you're lucky enough or savvy enough to catch em on a good day you get a good boat.

Along that line, anyone got any opinions of the Hunter twin keel boats? Specially, their more recent models with the condos on the inside. See link for an example...

Look at this awesome Hunter Legend 36 I found on YachtWorld! https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/2004-hunter-legend-36-8315983/

Edit - dunno what the board widget did to that link. Here's just the copypasta version...

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/200...nd-36-8315983/

The ad says it sleeps 7. To me, that means it is being marketed as a floating condo.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

The ad says it sleeps 7. To me, that means it is being marketed as a floating condo.

To me that suggests it has an aft double, a v berth, a drop drop table, and another settee

nothing special and certainly not a floating condo

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

To me that suggests it has an aft double, a v berth, a drop drop table, and another settee

nothing special and certainly not a floating condo

Exactly.. No different to the Legend 37's of the 80's..
All this is is a remodel on an old design.. with bilge keels.

[Rumrace]

When my wife and I were shopping we viewed a new Hunter 40. The boat seemed brilliant and well built but I could not stand the helm seats.
Now I understand the few out there the dealers are stuck with and likely want to dump. Warranty and Service zip.
Catalina doesn’t care what age your boat is so safer bet for depreciation.

[soopad00pa]

I ask because I like the idea of twin keels and there aren't that many of em out there, relatively. Wondered if these hulls were in the cool kids club or just part of the meh brigade.

As for condoness, my boat is me 90% of the time and an aft cabin is just storage and utility far as I'm concerned. But I do want some volume and space in a 'good enough' hull.

[Rumrace]

Bronze and brass hate each other. One uses zinc one uses tin The zinc looses and fast.
Stainless to brass drain held on by a zinc nut. They take 20 years to become brittle in your house. Sticking to a single alloy or mechanically isolated metals is best.

[Rumrace]

My Jeanneau has 2 rudders and it handles really nice one her chine with just one. I suppose the lesser drag is a great benefit as many new hulls have twins. I sailed a Dufour with a single rudder and it was lovely too. Migrated from racing.
I have a bow thruster and have never had a docking issue maybe because of it. It backs up with a prop walk at any speed above dead slow

[Rumrace]

Sorry I miss read. Twin Keels I’ve only seen in conceptual drawings for race toys. Can’t see their purpose on a hull with running chines. Especially the Cruiser/Racer class on topic

[Tetepare]

I’ve been in, on, and under hundreds of Hunters and have never seen a bildge keeler. That’s pretty cool.

BTW the Catalina 30 is advertised to sleep 7. And it will, with some caveats.

One thing few talk about is the size of the berths- particularly primary berths like the V and aft cabin. Some of the B and J boats shrank the lengths to jam more stuff in. The Catalina 30 has a V that’s a foot longer than the V in the jeanneau 36i.

On another note, I can’t stand the B36CC. They didn’t make many, so it appears I’m not alone.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

My own personal experience with brass and saltwater came when I outfitted my Bene to sail around the world. The 1985 French built Bene came with bronze fittings. I used a combination of brass and bronze fittings to plumb in new equipment like the watermaker, salt galley pump, and washdown pump, because it was hard to find bronze for the smaller bits. The brass turned pink, and I replaced it all within 5 years.

I replaced all through hulls and valves in 2005 when the boat was 20 years old. I was in Marmaris at the time, and asked the yard manager whether I should use the locally available fittings. He said that he didn't trust the Euro fittings and I should bring in real bronze from the USA. I flew back to the boat with a 40 pound duffle bag full of bronze.

https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/k...rwater-alloys/

There are always one or two personal anecdotes like this. My point was they are a tiny minority. The huge majority of euro boats sitting in marinas plugged in are not suffering failing seacocks after a few years despite hysteria from some quarters mostly NA

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

A lot of what sailors think of as bronze is actually corrosion-resistant brazz such as naval bronze.


This can be discovered through a close reading on the background materials. Manufacturers use the term bronze, even though the allot really isn't, as a marketing tool to re-assure buyers.


Nothing wrong with it. I had a naval bronze rudder shaft on a 40-year-old sailboat that had turned pink where the stuffing box sat due to dezincification. This is somewhat common.



It was still strong as hell. A metals expert told me to worry when the pink area started cracking and flaking.

Anyway DNZ brass is more then adequate if not subject to stupid ABYC bonding strategies.