Hunter, Catalina, Benneteau Debate

[Ericson38]

Originally Posted by slap

While #1 has more wetted surface it also has significantly greater initial form stability so can probably carry more sail to more than make up for the wetted surface increase.

Its shown here-

https://www.aoki.us/zen24/performance/292/

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by wingssail

The hard chines don't seem very prominent in this photo. I guess you're talking about the chines between each steel "plank'?

I agree, that doesn't look like a hard chine hull to me either.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

I agree, that doesn't look like a hard chine hull to me either.

She has a hard chine ( one )

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by wingssail

The hard chines don't seem very prominent in this photo. I guess you're talking about the chines between each steel "plank'?

QUOTE from the organiser's in an article about the Joshua OD's for the 2022 GGR..

Organisers say everything about this new one-design class “speaks of the original Joshua.”

“She may be slightly longer, have a little more beam and draft, together with a taller main mast, but the essence remains. She looks, feels and will sail just like the original,” they add.

Constructed from laser-cut 5mm, 6mm and 8mm steel sheet, these multi-chined class yachts are being built to strict one-design rules.

“This is an exciting development for the Golden Globe Race, creating a new class of simple, safe, affordable and competitive one-design yachts to race around the world,” continued McIntyre.

[boatman61]

My statement re Joshua's chines came from a memory of what he said in his account of the race..
Something about after passing Australia he discovered Joshua's sweet spot where she would squat on her chines and fly with the coaming kissing the water..
This could also (after a bit of reading) result from a soft chined boat..
Quote; The primary difference is the shape. Hard chine tends to produce a higher and abrupt increase in bouancy forces as the vessel heals over. The soft chined vessel will reach it at linear rate. Maximum buoyancy forces are reached at deck edge immersion. So, a snap may be more apparent with a hard chine or reverse chined boat.

[pnw2022]

When people talk about 'build quality', here is an example from the port side near the galley on a model year 2009 Hunter 41DS. Note the split duct that covers the 110VAC wires UNTIL they actually get close to a friction area. Which was also drilled of insufficient diameter to fit the split duct at all and barely fits the wires alone.

Also notice what I call 'half tabbing' (not sure if that is the right term) where the part of the structure that is easily visible has tabbing to the hull but the aft section that is more difficult to access/inspect does not. I have a few other photos from the insides where the construction is similar - hull to bulkhead tabbing only on one side, typically the forward side. Is this common in the industry?

In all honesty I do not know enough about it all to know for sure, other than some other bulkhead sections I have had access to in the past actually had the veneer removed about 3-4" off the edge of the hull like it was expected that there would be some tabbing put in?

Granted, this was a boat built during the great financial crisis (~2008/~2009) and when Hunter also moved from teak veneer to synthetic veneer along with the switch from lead keels to iron. I also think this boat was a bit of an oddball/hybrid during that period.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Something about after passing Australia he discovered Joshua's sweet spot where she would squat on her chines and fly with the coaming kissing the water..

It's a well-known behavior of "Chine boats" among designers and those who study them, (with an eye for the curve of the chine).
A famous racing boat "Ragtime" by John Spencer comes to mind.
If you visualize the sheer to chine and chine to keel as being the immersed V-shape when the boat heels, you see that it's somewhat similar to a V-bottom speedboat that's running upright.
When upright and running downwind you still have the V-shape.
Heeled over to the "sweet spot" the chine becomes a "mini keel", and the boat tracks like it's on rails.
Far too many people "toss out" or disregard chine boats as being of less aesthetic appearance, and that can be true to some extent, but with good design they are much better sailors than many would give them credit for.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

It's a well-known behavior of "Chine boats" among designers and those who study them, (with an eye for the curve of the chine).
A famous racing boat "Ragtime" by John Spencer comes to mind.
If you visualize the sheer to chine and chine to keel as being the immersed V-shape when the boat heels, you see that it's somewhat similar to a V-bottom speedboat that's running upright.
When upright and running downwind you still have the V-shape.
Heeled over to the "sweet spot" the chine becomes a "mini keel", and the boat tracks like it's on rails.
Far too many people "toss out" or disregard chine boats as being of less aesthetic appearance, and that can be true to some extent, but with good design they are much better sailors than many would give them credit for.

Having had a couple of chine boats, one planked timber and a steel VDS I can agree with you, initially tender but, when that chine bites they became different animals..

[wpatch]

Originally Posted by Rohan

I have the same boat. I'm confused why you think the boarding areas is way too big. It's standard size for any boat in that class. And the freeboard isn't unusually high.

The only things I don't like about the H36 are the B&R rig, too much beige, beige, beige color inside, and the curtains really suck.

Our side gate is about 5 feet on each side. Thats wide, and makes it so only the arch is available to grab. The two sabers on my dock are about 2.5 feet..perfect for folks getting on.

They are a 2 step up, mine is a 3. I can easily hop on the sabers, but I have had folks nervous climbing the 3rd step quite regularly.

Curtains..you have curtains! Thats on my list, along with a deck light...was out at night and went looking for it and was very sad I dont have one!

[Phyrcooler]

Originally Posted by wpatch

Our side gate is about 5 feet on each side. Thats wide, and makes it so only the arch is available to grab. The two sabers on my dock are about 2.5 feet..perfect for folks getting on.

They are a 2 step up, mine is a 3. I can easily hop on the sabers, but I have had folks nervous climbing the 3rd step quite regularly.

Curtains..you have curtains! Thats on my list, along with a deck light...was out at night and went looking for it and was very sad I dont have one!

5’ is about the same opening as my side gates. However, I’m glad because my Bimini is strong, (1.25” tubing and well braced) - and in a better position for providing assistance from steps, all the way up and over gunnel. It distributes the loads entirely across both stern rails. That is better than folks yanking sideways on a stanchion. While stanchions at the gate opening are usually braced to resist the pull fore and aft, there is little to support the lateral pull from someone hoisting themselves up. In my experience, you’ll find on many boats the stanchion where people regularly board is the first one to flex, wobble and leak.

[wpatch]

Originally Posted by Phyrcooler

5’ is about the same opening as my side gates. However, I’m glad because my Bimini is strong, (1.25” tubing and well braced) - and in a better position for providing assistance from steps, all the way up and over gunnel. It distributes the loads entirely across both stern rails. That is better than folks yanking sideways on a stanchion. While stanchions at the gate opening are usually braced to resist the pull fore and aft, there is little to support the lateral pull from someone hoisting themselves up. In my experience, you’ll find on many boats the stanchion where people regularly board is the first one to flex, wobble and leak.

You have convinced me:-) Good thoughts I have noticed the wobble...and you are right that arch is built like a beast!

[jbinbi]

Just curious, where does hanse fit in on this space of price vs quality vs performance in relation to the title of this thread?

[svadagiomaine]

I really like my Beneteau. This probably makes me a bad person. I wanted a mid 30s coastal cruiser less than 20 years old that was easy to single hand and that the family would enjoy being on. I also wanted to spend $70.

I was looking to get an H36 but couldn’t find one at the time. I was not excited about the rig but I had sailed on an H36 and liked it. I did look at one H36 that had been hard grounded and had keel damage so that phenomenon is not limited to Group B.

I also looked at a number of Catalina MKII’s and every one I looked at was wet. They also sail no better than my boat and the interiors for the same model year look very dated by comparison.

I wasn’t looking for a Beneteau but liked the 343 and looked at a couple and bought one. I also looked at some 351s and they were trashed, so it depends on what model you are looking at. The laminate interior is fine, it is light, functional, doesn’t warp, it’s fine. I don’t understand wasting hardwoods on a boat interior, but that’s just me. Half these guys that say they can’t live without old growth forest in their boat interior have laminate furniture in their house, so that is total BS. It’s an esthetic preference, and not where I would spend my money.

Attaching the bulkheads differently would make absolutely ZERO difference to the integrity of this boat for its designed purpose, which is coastal cruising. The shallow bilge is an annoyance made up for by MUCH more standing headroom than in the other boats. The head/shower and rear cabin are much bigger than the other boats. The interior in general is very comfortable and well laid out, on par with the hunter and far better than the Catalina. The iron keel IS sort of a concern but I was going to get the bottom done anyway and once it’s epoxied, who cares, but yes that is an expense. The keel bolt complaint is a distraction, they are easy to access and inspect and mine show no degradation.

The boat is easy to sail, easy to maintain, and DRY. I don’t want to cross large oceans, if I did I would buy another boat, and NOT a catalina 34 or Hunter 36.

[goboatingnow]

How does owning a fine cruising boat like a Beneteau make you ” bad”

[boatman61]

Agreed.. I've owned 2 Bene's and taken them a across an ocean and they were capable enough.. both a tad smaller than yours.. did the same with an old 1983 Hunter 37c.
What it boils down to is its the buyers choice on the day.. sometimes I've wanted a Cat.. other times a bilge keeler and other times a fin or.. as currently looking, a long keeler.
These discussions are generally just pissing contests between owners defending their choice and the boats value..
Its a boat.. Be Happy..