I want to register my boat overseas how can I do this

[Variant]

I am a New Zealand Citizen living in New Zealand with a NZ built and registered boat. I think the requirements here for offshore sailing are getting ridiculous so I want to register my boat elsewhere to avoid all this nonsense. Which country has the best flag of convenience and will allow me to register my boat if I am not a citizen of that country?

[daletournier]

There was a similar question recently. Do a search.

I'd go for langkawi Malaysia. You can get an agent do it for you, its relatively cheap, no importing boat etc.

Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[haiqu]

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...-118170-2.html

http://www.langkawi-gazette.com/mari...t-registration

Minor issue there is that if you leave NZ then return your stay may be limited to 2 years. Resale to another kiwi would also attract duty and GST unless he wanted to retain MY registration. Think carefully about the ramifications.

I realize that a Cat 1 inspection is a PITA but it's for your own safety after all.

[haiqu]

Oh and according to NZ customs:

"Note: Should the owner(s) of the vessel hold a NZ passport or have previously held the right of permanent residency in NZ a deposit may be required to be paid when entering a vessel temporarily."

See http://www.customs.govt.nz/inprivate...s/default.aspx

None of this works in Australia btw. They use "beneficial ownership" as the criterion to determine whether to charge import duty and GST regardless of the yacht's flag.

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by haiqu

I realize that a Cat 1 inspection is a PITA but it's for your own safety after all.

I have yet to hear of a law, regulation , or rule that was not described as good.

The difference between the western democracies and the socialist dictatorships used to be, in the democracies, that which was not specifically prohibited was allowed, while in the dictatorships, that which was nor specifically allowed was prohibited. With the rise of the bureaucracies, the democracies have now managed to actually control even more than the dictatorships once did. Too many children of the state = too many nanny's of the state.

[grantmc]

There are many other registries including
Germany (€25)
British Small Ships(£60 plus £90 to renew after 10 years)
(English) Channel Islands:
Guernsey (£300)
Jersey (£285)
BVI (US$600 plus $US100 p.a.)
Malta (£115 plus £95 p.a.)
Isle of Man (£160 plus £115 p.a.)
Gibraltar (£225 plus £25 p.a)
Vanuatu (US$800 lasts 5 years)
etc etc
Malayasia Langkawi (MYR$1,500 say NZ$500) as someone mentioned.

The above is based on under (mostly) 12 mtrs and purely recreational.

THE GST and Sales Tax thing shouldn't be a hassle. You need to talk to a Customs Agent, but it is a matter of proving the boat will leave NZ (before she leaves!) and then again proving she's the same boat that returns. GST and sales tax has already been paid. I think you'll just need a temporary export. Personally I would just phone Customs and ask. They are very helpful. Then ask the person to confirm their advice in writing.

I wouldn't take too much notice of advice you receive here.

[Dave22q]

Why do folks assume bureaucrats are stupid? They may be lazy but are seldom stupid. OP's question is similar to " how can I dodge taxes"? The best answer is to move. Get cute at your own risk! Most bureaucrats get energetic if you piss them off. You really do not want to do that. The problem with obvious scams is that they tend to be obvious!

[Dave22q]

Originally Posted by Variant

I am a New Zealand Citizen living in New Zealand with a NZ built and registered boat. I think the requirements here for offshore sailing are getting ridiculous so I want to register my boat elsewhere to avoid all this nonsense. Which country has the best flag of convenience and will allow me to register my boat if I am not a citizen of that country?

I sure would not want this read to a NZ tax evasion jury!!! Jurors pay taxes too.

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by Dave22q

Why do folks assume bureaucrats are stupid? They may be lazy but are seldom stupid. OP's question is similar to " how can I dodge taxes"? The best answer is to move. Get cute at your own risk! Most bureaucrats get energetic if you piss them off. You really do not want to do that. The problem with obvious scams is that they tend to be obvious!

Is a brick wall smart, stupid, or lazy? None of the above, but the regulations and procedures created by bureaucrats are not either. No need to call them names beyond what they indisputably are: bureaucrats, which to me means, mainly, inflexible. Some, in their own way and place, can be cajoled, using the proper incentive, but for the most part, no, particularly in a large office setting.

[ranchero76]

Actually, it's serious topic, let's keep it alive. Escape from slavery of modern world is becoming harder and harder, so any useful information is much appreciated.
No, modern governments not stupid. They are slaves of transnational corporations, and their main function in modern world - to make people slaves from birthday till death. Ever increasing taxes and ever increasing limitations for poor people - their weapon, and they ALWAYS will find reasons to increase taxes. The gap between rich people and poor people is bigger than EVER on this planet.
So back to original post - reply #6 gives some good information with remark it applies to vessels under 12m. Is there similar information for vessels up to 20m?

[Dave22q]

Originally Posted by buzzstar

Is a brick wall smart, stupid, or lazy? None of the above, but the regulations and procedures created by bureaucrats are not either. No need to call them names beyond what they indisputably are: bureaucrats, which to me means, mainly, inflexible. Some, in their own way and place, can be cajoled, using the proper incentive, but for the most part, no, particularly in a large office setting.

Unlike a brick wall, a bureaucrat can get mad when he spots a cute tax avoidance scheme. He may exercise his discretion to increase rather than moderate the penalties. "Oh the taxes are too high" is not likely to engender much sympathy.

[KP44]

This didn't sound like an attempt to evade taxes, but to avoid inspections that the owner dislikes. Most seaworthy vessels will easily pass inspection. But each owner or Skipper makes his/her own choices. This sounds like a lot of hassle to avoid some hassle.

[Variant]

I don't know why this turned into a discussion of politics? Simple truth is I cannot afford to get my boat up to cat 1 standards. If you look through the checklist, a lot makes sense, but do I really need a safety sign in my galley? Why should my boat fail if I don't have a sign saying "turn off gas"? Every time you leave NZ your safety certificate is downgraded to Cat 2 meaning you have to go through the same process the next time you leave. Who knows, maybe next time I'll need a safety sign in the cockpit reading "warning ocean". Seems like a lot more hassle than it is worth.

[grantmc]

Originally Posted by KP44

This didn't sound like an attempt to evade taxes, but to avoid inspections that the owner dislikes. Most seaworthy vessels will easily pass inspection. But each owner or Skipper makes his/her own choices. This sounds like a lot of hassle to avoid some hassle.

The initial observation in the above post is quite correct; the issue in New Zealand has nothing to do with tax. A NZ registered pleasure boat must satisfy an inspection (by a qualified boat inspector) that the vessel and crew meets all Cat. 1 requirements in order to gain Customs clearance to leave the country.

But the second observation may be incorrect because anecdotally many owners find the inspection very difficult to pass and very expensive too. But it is like a Trumpism, it's only anecdotal, there are no statistics available as to pass/fails.

I had the experience 12 months ago of heading offshore (from NZ) on an Oz registered yawl (so avoided Cat. 1). After 400 miles the yacht was falling to bits (literally) and we had to turn back. Very difficult to convince the Skipper to turn around but the consequences if we hadn't could have been dire. And it was a huge relief when we finally sighted land.

As an aside. On the forum I've noticed time after time almost everyone advises newbies "get a survey" before you buy. Is that just about avoiding buying a lemon or is actually about not risking lives? Well that is basically all a Cat. 1 inspection is, a survey by a highly qualified boat inspector to a clear set of criteria. So who is at risk by avoiding an inspection, and what might be the consequences?

Earlier today I read a post on this forum from a Skipper seeking advice about whether it would be OK for him to sail from US East Coast to Tahiti and on to New Zealand even though his life-raft is over a year out of service. Well I would ask would you be happy to be a crew member on that boat? (Oh and a raft out of service would result a fail of Cat. 1 obviously.)

My response to the point a few people earlier have made about bureaucracy and civil servants running amok and taking away freedom from yachties is that that point is complete bollocks. Because it's that same bureaucracy that people mayday when something goes wrong on their tiny little boat hundreds of miles from land in the Southern Ocean. Also New Zealand has nothing like the resources of the USA. Our Coastguard, for example are all volunteers. Our Air Force only have 3 or 4 Orion search aircraft. A typical rescue helicopter is limited to what? about 200 miles. And if you happen to be unlucky enough to be closer to Fiji or Tonga and have problems the planes and boats from those countries struggle just to get money for fuel so good luck to help from there.

So bear in mind when you leave New Zealand it's no milk run. The ocean is big and grey and cold, and all land is a long long way away.

[ranchero76]

Owner wants to take own responsibility for condition of the boat, and doesn't want to pay stupid inspection fees etc. As long as he doesn't break the laws, there's nothing wrong with that. If someone wants to change citizenship, pay less taxes or be able to take own responsibility (legally!), there's also nothing wrong with that. We're not slaves. Or are we?

All of this irrelevant to OP. Guy's asking simple question "Which country has the best flag of convenience?" I'm also very interested what the options are currently, a specially for bigger boat, 17-20m.