Is Alberg the best production designer ever?

[CarlF]

Given you like Alberg designs and this is your first time at the rodeo, I'd focus on Cape Dory. Very good quality build (not "excellent" like Shannon or Hinckley but very good). And the owners have tended to take good care of them because they are so pretty.

With your price point I'd either look at a Cape Dory 25 or 28. Either will be fine for coastal cruising or even going to the Caribbean. And the price will leave you with enough money to fix it up. Do that for five years and then decide if you really want to cross an ocean - and with your experience what boat you want to do it.

Most people own 3 or more boats over their cruising time (I'm on my 6th). It's a waste of time to try to pick the perfect boat for the rest of your life.

[Lance Monotone]

Originally Posted by CarlF

Given you like Alberg designs and this is your first time at the rodeo, I'd focus on Cape Dory. Very good quality build (not "excellent" like Shannon or Hinckley but very good). And the owners have tended to take good care of them because they are so pretty.

With your price point I'd either look at a Cape Dory 25 or 28. Either will be fine for coastal cruising or even going to the Caribbean. And the price will leave you with enough money to fix it up. Do that for five years and then decide if you really want to cross an ocean - and with your experience what boat you want to do it.

Most people own 3 or more boats over their cruising time (I'm on my 6th). It's a waste of time to try to pick the perfect boat for the rest of your life.

Great advice, thank you! I actually do have my eye on a Cape Dory 27 near me. Price is right and it looks like she was well taken care of. https://www.boattrader.com/boat/1977...ry-27-7335571/

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Lance Monotone

This is spot on why I'm looking for one. I'm in no hurry to get where I'm going but I'd like to be alive when I get there. Also as a new sailor, I'm going to need a forgiving boat, which these seem to be.

Seems like a great way to save a bunch of cash. Thanks for the tip!

This is my boat in winds over 30 knots. It was the end of a 3 hour crossing and it may have been laying down a bit but you can still hear the wind singing in the rigging. It was more of a shrieking sound halfway across.

I misjudged the wind and had too much sail up, hatch open, no PFD or harness on. I was able to furl in the jib and get into my harness and tether up then close the hatch.

I had been taking waves over the side until I was able to head DDW. The bow lights were out afterward (to much time spent underwater I suspect) and the dodger frame got broken from a wave but the boat did great!

It was sort of fun watching how the stern would rise up to meet the waves just before they broke into the boat.

Check out how much water the boat is pushing due to having too much sail up. I should have probably been sailing with small jib only then the autopilot could have handled the steering, but it was too late to make the change when I discovered I had misjudged the wind speed and also the tide was against the wind.

The only option I had was to sail with the wind. Couldn't heave to in that because it was in the bay and the waves are to close and steep. The boat (and I) would have taken a real beating had I tried that.

I was just praying the rigging, rudder, and tiller would hold up. I have yet to replace the rigging.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nXfjcCuiPk

[Lance Monotone]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Check out how much water the boat is pushing due to having too much sail up. I should have probably been sailing with small jib only then the autopilot could have handled the steering, but it was too late to make the change when I discovered I had misjudged the wind speed and also the tide was against the wind.

The only option I had was to sail with the wind. Couldn't heave to in that because it was in the bay and the waves are to close and steep. The boat (and I) would have taken a real beating had I tried that.

I was just praying the rigging, rudder, and tiller would hold up. I have yet to replace the rigging.

Yikes! But that does look like fun! Were you ever afraid the boat would fail you? I guess you could have blown your main, right? Not the end of the world, but sucky.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Lance Monotone

Yikes! But that does look like fun! Were you ever afraid the boat would fail you? I guess you could have blown your main, right? Not the end of the world, but sucky.

Fun? for three hours yes but if it had been for 6 or 16 no so much because I couldn't let go of the tiller. I ran out of water in the cockpit and had no food within reach.

I wasn't worried about blowing the main.....it's 8 oz dacron. Plus if it did blow out that wouldn't have been a problem because I could then use the jib which I should have used in the first place only.

I just didn't know how big the waves would get. They were very large at the shipping channels where the depths change drastically.

I was in sync steering and had crossed both shipping channels by the time I took the video

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Lance Monotone

Ah, well that makes my original question even more relevant, namely whether there are Alberg designs that weren't built very well.

Not that I'm stuck on an Alberg design for my boat, mind you. I've just been seeing a lot of them out there and they generally seem to be well-regarded. I'm keeping my options open.

Alberg designed 'em but he didn't get to say how they'd be built. Fortunately most of his designs seem to have been built well. But many of the old CCA designs like his were built in the 50's and 60's when fiberglass boats were laid up by hand and pretty thick too so they have stood the test of time. Alberg designed some beauties, but forgive me if I prefer my Sparkman and Stephens idea of a nice long-keeler.

[LLCoolDave]

It's very common as a new sailor to get attached to a type of boat or a designer. I've been sailing about five years and I read a lot of John Kretchmer so of course I thought a contessa 32 was the end all be all boat. Get some experience and keep your mind open about what you'd like. The reputation for Albergs is they are fairly well constructed but will heel significantly more and offer less interior space than a modern boat. The loss of steering is more likely to be caused by a lack of maintenance than a catastrophic event. Realize that Carl Alberg designed boats for a specific point and time. If he was still designing boats they'd be modern with bolt on keels and spade rudders. For $20k you'd get a great Catalina 30 with more interior space, more tankage, sails faster, etc etc.

[Lance Monotone]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Alberg designed 'em but he didn't get to say how they'd be built. Fortunately most of his designs seem to have been built well. But many of the old CCA designs like his were built in the 50's and 60's when fiberglass boats were laid up by hand and pretty thick too so they have stood the test of time. Alberg designed some beauties, but forgive me if I prefer my Sparkman and Stephens idea of a nice long-keeler.

I agree, Sparkman and Stephens has some pretty boats but from what I see most are waaay out of my budget!

I just read a long thread from December discussing full keel boats which was very informative. I'm sure the more I dig into CF the more I will learn. Thank you so much for taking the time to offer your thoughts.

[Lance Monotone]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Fun? for three hours yes but if it had been for 6 or 16 no so much because I couldn't let go of the tiller. I ran out of water in the cockpit and had no food within reach.

I wasn't worried about blowing the main.....it's 8 oz dacron. Plus if it did blow out that wouldn't have been a problem because I could then use the jib which I should have used in the first place only.

I just didn't know how big the waves would get. They were very large at the shipping channels where the depths change drastically.

I was in sync steering and had crossed both shipping channels by the time I took the video

Haha, by fun I meant absolutely terrifying. That does sound like quite the ordeal. I'm not looking forward to my first storm but I am looking forward to afterwards and the confidence I will have gained by living through it. Forgive a newbie question, but could you have hove to?

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Lance Monotone

Haha, by fun I meant absolutely terrifying. That does sound like quite the ordeal. I'm not looking forward to my first storm but I am looking forward to afterwards and the confidence I will have gained by living through it. Forgive a newbie question, but could you have hove to?

The waves in the bay are too close and steep in winds near 30-35 knots as they were that day especially with the opposing strong tide

The boat and the occupant would have gotten totally beat up and the boat may have become flooded with water as the waves continually broke over the bow and sides.

In the ocean, the waves are more widely spaced so heaving too is an option in certain situations or laying a hull.

Not in the Chesapeake Bay though

[Lance Monotone]

Originally Posted by LLCoolDave

It's very common as a new sailor to get attached to a type of boat or a designer. I've been sailing about five years and I read a lot of John Kretchmer so of course I thought a contessa 32 was the end all be all boat. Get some experience and keep your mind open about what you'd like. The reputation for Albergs is they are fairly well constructed but will heel significantly more and offer less interior space than a modern boat. The loss of steering is more likely to be caused by a lack of maintenance than a catastrophic event. Realize that Carl Alberg designed boats for a specific point and time. If he was still designing boats they'd be modern with bolt on keels and spade rudders. For $20k you'd get a great Catalina 30 with more interior space, more tankage, sails faster, etc etc.

Please take these comments with a grain of salt from a city boy with absolutely no sailing experience aside from Youtube, poring over sailboat reviews, and forums like these. I fully accept I probably have no idea what I'm talking about (and you all have been extremely patient and helpful).

I'm okay with heeling (I think) but I'm deathly afraid of hitting flotsam (or a whale) and being stuck at sea with no steering and out of water. I realize the chances of that happening are pretty slim with proper planning, but I've a very active imagination and safety is no accident. Rudder choice is something I have control over, even if the weather is not.

I hope I'm not insulting you if you have one but I've not heard great things about Catalinas. From what I've read they tend to have keel problems and are made rather cheaply. I also rather like the idea of owning a classic boat. I'm not afraid to work on it and in fact I hope to (just not right away haha).

[Lance Monotone]

Originally Posted by thomm225

The waves in the bay are too close and steep in winds near 30-35 knots as they were that day especially with the opposing strong tide

The boat and the occupant would have gotten totally beat up and the boat may have become flooded with water as the waves continually broke over the bow and sides.

In the ocean, the waves are more widely spaced so heaving too is an option in certain situations or laying a hull.

Not in the Chesapeake Bay though

Note to self: stay out of the Chesapeake!

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Lance Monotone

Note to self: stay out of the Chesapeake!

No, you don't need to stay out of the Chesapeake.

I misjudged the winds based on the 22 knot forecast and that I was anchored in a protected area for northerly winds Kiptopeke.

The Bay is a great place to sail.......

The only other boat out that day that I saw was a 50' dual helm racing boat from my marina and they all wished they'd never went out. They were coming out of Little Creek as I was coming in. They had stories like the waves were 10'-15' and winds were 35 knots. They were sailing to windward with jib only way off the wind. Two of the four onboard got seriously seasick and they were all sailors with their own boats

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Lance Monotone

Please take these comments with a grain of salt from a city boy with absolutely no sailing experience aside from Youtube, poring over sailboat reviews, and forums like these. I fully accept I probably have no idea what I'm talking about (and you all have been extremely patient and helpful).

I'm okay with heeling (I think) but I'm deathly afraid of hitting flotsam (or a whale) and being stuck at sea with no steering and out of water. I realize the chances of that happening are pretty slim with proper planning, but I've a very active imagination and safety is no accident. Rudder choice is something I have control over, even if the weather is not.

I hope I'm not insulting you if you have one but I've not heard great things about Catalinas. From what I've read they tend to have keel problems and are made rather cheaply. I also rather like the idea of owning a classic boat. I'm not afraid to work on it and in fact I hope to (just not right away haha).

He is right though, the old Alberg designs do heel a lot. My boat has an 8' beam

Again, I have too much sail up but check the angle......

I'm crossing the bay East to West as a front rolls in. Temps went from mid 80's to maybe 69 degrees.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3I2zc0_7wY

[Jim Cate]

I'm surprised that no one has suggested Bob Perry as one of the great cruising boat designers. His track record is right up there IMO, and he's still around to throw stones at!

And once again I'm surprised at the number of absolute newbies that have shown up lately insisting on full keel designs when they have sailed none of them. go figger...
This prejudice is pretty local to the USA... most of the world goes cruising in more modern designs. Not making any value judgement there, but noting a statistical anomaly (IMO).

Jim