Is Alberg the best production designer ever?

[JohnHolland]

My old 1963 A30 also had a leaking hull to deck joint, rotten chainplate knees and mast step needed reinforcing with a bulkhead beam, thr masthead had weak cranes, easily reinforced. I'm sure most boats of that age had poor caulking that caused some of the rotting and leaks.
However, a very solid forgiving boat that took us across the Carib. and Pacific to NZ

[bailsout]

L. Francis Herreshoff for simple and elegant design. Some of his designs were mass- produced in modern times. But you can still find old wooden boats. I’m not sure who did the mass producing except for Mariner Yachts- a rebirth of Far East Yachts of Japan in the USA.

[rgleason]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

I owned a Bristol 30 for 10 years and now own a Catalina 320.

The pluses for small, old long-keelers are that sailboats of this design are extremely seaworthy and can plow through chops that stop newer boats cold.

The minuses of these types of sailboats: Three- to four-knot cruising, lots of initial heel, no room in the cabin, poor access to the diesel, crappy hull-deck joints that leak, poor pointing ability, substandard wiring, narrow side decks, no easy way to climb aboard or carry dinghy.

Pluses for the Catalina: Very fast, OK pointing, extremely comfortable, easy access to diesel and everything else that needs maintenance, sails flat, lots of room, no leaks, no teak, swim platform that can carry dinghy.

The minuses for the Catalina: Flattish bottom that stops the boat in a steep chop, not really built for long distances offshore, wing keel can be problematic if you run aground, rudder is not protected with a skeg.

Glad you gave pluses and minus for both boats.

My observations for Bristol 32:
She gets up to hull speed 6.2 knots quite readily. With a full 3 blade prop and any adverse current with 5 knots of wind is often not adequate. We have 9'8" beam and good tumble home so the initial heel is not so immediate, room for 5 sleeping (tight) but it is perfect for 2. Front engine access is fine, access to the aft part of the engine and cutlass bearing is more difficult and through the port cockpit locker and is somewhat upside down!, hull deck joints haven't leaked, pointing ability is about 12-12.5 degrees with genoa, with the jib the sheeting angle gets wider 14-14.5 if the jib is not small enough to be sheeted inboard of the stays, any 40 year old boat will need regular electrical upgrades and if not done will become a total job, "narrow side decks" (not really that narrow), "no easy way to climb aboard" (no stern scoop) "or carry dinghy" (stern davits and extra weight in a pointy end CCA designs are not good).

So the minus's list does not fully apply to all "boats of this type". I will add one opinion to the Catalina list, I found that with the shallow bilges water can slosh into inadequate storage areas, as compared to our Bristol. Catalina's are generally faster and point higher. This Bristol can stay right on course without touching the helm if sails are adjusted properly. Catalina's with the more efficient keel do not track as well generally, and will require more attention.

[mdc]

We love our Pearson Alberg 35. She keeps us very comfortable and always gets lots of compliments in a harbor.

[laika]

As a small full keel boat owner, I'd partially echo what others have said about small full keel classics not being quite as desirable as when I first bought mine 10 years ago. She's a great boat and still works great for us, but we tend to motor more than others and have gotten caught out more than once in deteriorating wx on passage where buddy boats were already safely in harbor. If we were buying again today--which notably we are not--we would place more emphasis on sailing ability.

That said, I bought my boat after sailing an old lightly built production boat that was a lot faster but oil canned and shuddered its way down each wave.

There's definitely a wide middle ground there.

Re: the water tankage shortfalls of small boats, we've only got 45 gallons of water onboard. But we have a watermaker with redundant feed pumps that runs off solar, plenty of spares, and a backup manual watermaker in our ditch bag. Anymore tankage would seem like a waste of space to us.

I also like what Don said about not listening to his advice after giving it I'd echo that. End of the day, do what you want and go have fun.

[Greg K]

You could do a lot worse than an Alberg design. I've owned two, an Alberg 30 and a Cape Dory 36. All of his designs, whether built by Whitby, Pearson or Cape Dory, are excellent sea going boats that will give you a nice ride and keep you safe. My favorite of the smaller Albergs is the Nye 29 built in Canada. Alberg designed it near the end of his career. Compared to the A30 design, she has a longer waterline, wider beam, more sail area and is a stiffer boat even though the LOA is a foot shorter. Rare boat but well worth a look if you can find one for sale.
https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/alberg-29

[rgleason]

Originally Posted by laika

I also like what Don said about not listening to his advice after giving it I'd echo that. End of the day, do what you want and go have fun.

Agreed! Every boat is a compromise. Have fun. As a youngster I sailed on an Alberg fairly often and really enjoyed it. That was a long time ago, however I can't imagine (yet) a foiling cruiser.

[SVSOLITAIRE]

Originally Posted by Lance Monotone

Oh, that's interesting. I'll have to look into that. I see that's a gas inboard. If you know, how does that stack up to diesel?

There’s a fair amount of info as far as overall gas vs diesel, but as far as the Alberg 30’s go you’ll find that most on the market have had the atomic 4 swapped out for diesel. Though doing my own research I’ve never heard any real complaints about the original atomic 4.

I swapped my diesel for an outboard similar to atom voyages alberg modifications.

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by Lance Monotone

Oh great, now I have another designer to research. Just when I thought I was getting a handle on this haha.

Do any models between 27 and 31' stand out so I can narrow my reading?

You need to consider the Island Packets made in Florida - apparently they're like little sea going tanks. Not fast, but built like a brick outhouse.

[Lance Monotone]

Originally Posted by laika

If we were buying again today--which notably we are not--we would place more emphasis on sailing ability.

Originally Posted by laika

That said, I bought my boat after sailing an old lightly built production boat that was a lot faster but oil canned and shuddered its way down each wave.

Yes. That. Lurching my way over a stormy sea in a lightly-built production boat does not sound like fun to me. As I gain more trust in my abilities, I might change my mind, but at the beginning I want my boat to be bulletproof. I want to know I can trust it, and some of the other boats that have been mentioned here don't inspire that confidence when I read about them.

Two questions:

Was that full keel the right choice for you at the time or would you have done it differently?

If you were to buy today ... not that you are! ... what would you look at with the experience you've gained?

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by joelhemington

You need to consider the Island Packets made in Florida - apparently they're like little sea going tanks. Not fast, but built like a brick outhouse.

But usually very expensive and still slow and will not point.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by JohnHolland

My old 1963 A30 also had a leaking hull to deck joint, rotten chainplate knees and mast step needed reinforcing with a bulkhead beam, thr masthead had weak cranes, easily reinforced. I'm sure most boats of that age had poor caulking that caused some of the rotting and leaks.
However, a very solid forgiving boat that took us across the Carib. and Pacific to NZ

John, I find it odd that you can list the major structural weaknesses and then call the boat "very solid". Are those not kinda contradictory?

If simply crossing to NZed makes the boat solid, then would not all the many modern production boats (and there really are a lot of them) that also make that voyage be equally solid?

Jim

[thomm225]

It should be pretty obvious by now that it all comes down to cost.

If you want to see if sailing/cruising is for you, you can buy an old full keel sailboat that is capable of circling the globe for $1,000 - $5,000.

Now if you want to be faster than the other guy, you can pay to get that like any racer sailing PHRF.

These old boats are usually very well built but may need some upgrades. I have put $10,000 into my $2,000 boat over the last 9 years.

That's not bad as a total cost for a sailboat.

Some spend that on electronics alone and solar

[laika]

Originally Posted by Lance Monotone

Yes. That. Lurching my way over a stormy sea in a lightly-built production boat does not sound like fun to me. As I gain more trust in my abilities, I might change my mind, but at the beginning I want my boat to be bulletproof. I want to know I can trust it, and some of the other boats that have been mentioned here don't inspire that confidence when I read about them.

Two questions:

Was that full keel the right choice for you at the time or would you have done it differently?

If you were to buy today ... not that you are! ... what would you look at with the experience you've gained?

There are many lightly built production boats that are much better boats than the one I was initially on, an O'Day as it happened, so that was just my unique and possibly misguided reference point for wanting a tank. I really like our Vancouver, but not necessarily now because of the heavy full keel design.. The overall build quality is good and it's the boat I know inside and out and can personally vouch for. I would certainly like it to be a slightly better sailer, but then I would like for it's captain to be a slightly better sailor as well C'est la vie

I bought our 27' when I was mid 20s and single with a dog. It still works great for us, but then we have not been full timing it these last few years. If I was buying something different today and going back out full time, it would be slightly larger and faster but with as good of a build quality as our Vancouver. Something like a Pacific Seacraft 37 or
Wauquiez Pretorien 35 comes to mind.

But that's just one pretty small reference point.. everyone's different.

Something else to consider is if you are really just drawn to the traditional looks of the old full keelers. That could mean a lot.. looking at your boat and thinking it's beautiful and wanting to spend the time and money that it will need and deserve.

Another one of the pluses to the full keel good old boats nowadays is exactly because they're seen as slow and uncomfortable by so many sailors. There's a huge inventory over many decades of production and little demand. They can be a good value. But so can a lot of smaller lighter boats. With a few exceptions, anything less than 30 feet is going to be a good deal because the market for pocket cruisers seems to diminish more every year.

One other important thing to maybe keep in mind.. the differences between two sister ships can be bigger than the differences between two very different kinds of boats. How was a particular boat cared for over the 30-40-50 years of it's existence? Many previous owners' lavished expert care on their vessels and performed smart and well executed upgrades. Some boats have gradually become unsafe and less than worthless.

Before my advise starts wearing thin, I think the best thing I could say is to not get too bogged down in the exact boat. Find one you like with a decent reputation, do your due diligence, and then go sail and get to know it. If you do that, you can't make a bad choice.

[thomm225]

This boat, a Cape Dory 25D with trailer, is a great deal!

The trailer can save you $1,000's when you aren't sailing.

Plus you can deliver it where ever.

https://easternshore.craigslist.org/...262978369.html