Is an electric windlass a necessity when living on the hook solo?

[Fuss]

In many situations, It’s not possible to pull up the anchor solo when the wind is over 30kts.

[DarwinHolmstrom]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

With wind, it is difficult... I do not live aboard, but that is immaterial... Get one and install it right, hooked to the house bank.

Thank you. Good advice. I'm on Lake Superior now and wind seems to be the norm in most spots, but there are relatively calm bays in the Apostle Islands. I'm heading out to the Atlantic next summer and planning to make my way to the Caribbean after hurricane season, and I will live on the hook as much as possible, not just because I'm a cheap bastard, but because I don't like the rules, regulations, and commotion of a marina. I grew up on a farm that was 30 miles from the nearest grocery store and I've never been completely domesticated. I can fake it enough to function financially, but really I'm still pretty feral. I enjoy the marina where I keep my boat now, but much prefer to be on the hook in some remote bay.

[DarwinHolmstrom]

Originally Posted by Fuss

In many situations, It’s not possible to pull up the anchor solo when the wind is over 30kts.

Thank you. Waking up in a squall with a storm moving in and not being able to hoist the anchor is a concern I have. The odds are that I won't be anchoring solo too much until I get to the Caribbean. I'm at a marina on Lake Superior now and probably won't be on the hook unless I have someone with me, and when I head out to the Erie Canal I won't be going solo, but once I'm living in the Caribbean I will probably be alone most of the time. I may meet a woman who's first mate material (or even captain material if she's the right woman!), but I'm not counting on that happening. Maybe my electric windless will be my electric wench.

[CarlF]

The electric windlasses are pretty reliable now. They are also powerful enough to pull you to the anchor in settled weather if you run then in brief periods so they don't overheat.

Use the windlass to pull the boat forward just to take the sag out of the chain. Once it goes tight, stop and wait for the weight of the chain catenary to pull the boat forward creating more slack. Repeat until you are over the anchor.

The above won't work in very strong winds but that you can do powering from the helm without using a windlass control at the helm. Perhaps I am old school, but I like to watch the chain come in when the windlass is running. Things happen! And in many areas the chain needs mud cleaned off or you end up with a stinky anchor locker.

Fortunately, a heavy boat like the Shannon 38 will not be blown back quickly. So you can just power forward 50 feet put it in neutral then walk (no running needed) forward and pull in whatever chain is slack. When it goes tight go back to the helm and power forward another 50 ft. It will only take a few cycles.

As a live aboard you will want chain but get HT (G40) so you can go with a smaller chain size. This will help sailing performance to not have as much weight in the bow. Also, unless you are sailing in deep areas like the Pacific, 150ft of chain with another 150 of braided nylon spliced on should be plenty. Obviously get a windlass that can smoothly go from chain to rope.

Because of the Shannon's bowsprit most "roll bar" anchors iike Rocna don't fit well. Look at ones without hoop - Spade, Excel, Ultra. The Excel has been getting great reviews.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l59f-OjWoq0&t=1169s

Finally, Shannon normally put a battery in the bow for boats with a windlass. If you don't do this, you need to run really thick cable to avoid too much voltage drop. Use this calculator to make sure your voltage drop at maximum amps isn't more than 10%. https://www.genuinedealz.com/pages/v...rop-calculator

[DarwinHolmstrom]

Originally Posted by CarlF

Because of the Shannon's bowsprit most "roll bar" anchors iike Rocna don't fit well. Look at ones without hoop - Spade, Excel, Ultra.

Thank you. This is extremely helpful. I bought my boat in September and sailed her from Michigan to Duluth. I sailed quite a lot after that, but aboard someone else's smaller boat (an Erikson 34, which weighs half what my Shannon weighs). That was mostly for ASA training. By the time we finished in early October it was haul-out time for my boat so I didn't get a chance to use the anchors. The former owner (Captain Bruce!) put together a manual that is flat-out brilliant and has an excellent section on anchoring, but I haven't yet found the specs of the anchors. The more I look through this incredible manual, the more grateful I am for having found Sarah Belle. The original anchor specs were in the original ad, but that's no longer active. I'm sure it's in the manual, but until I find it (or resort to pestering Captain Bruce), I can't give the exact specs. The best I can do is post a photo. Let's see if this works. https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=....3473089719635

[Jim Cate]

Several thoughts:

First of all, the OP is not talking about having NO windlass, but trying to decide between a manual windlass and an electric one.

We've been living at anchor for a long time now, and my thoughts are based on 17 years with a manual windlass on our previous boat and now almost 18 on our current boat with an electric windlass.

For a solo sailor, in calm or quite moderate conditions and in uncrowded anchorages, a manual windlass will suffice with no dramas. If you change either of those conditions, weighing anchor becomes problematic. If there is significant wind, the period between breaking out the anchor and catting it has you drifting out of control, or running back to the cockpit to drive the boat around with the chain and anchor dangling deep in the water, looking for something to snag... like another boat's chain. Obviously, the deeper and more crowded the anchorage the worse this problem is. Can be pretty scary!

Now, a manual windlass is quite capable of weighing the anchor, and if it is a good one, without unduly stressing your back. But, it is SLOW and it requires your presence on the foredeck full time whilst the anchor ascends. Even a simple electric device will bring the chain in more rapidly, reducing the exposure time, and it is possible to fit a remote that will allow you to drive the boat whilst weighing when necessary. For routine situations, it is better to be on the foredeck where you can monitor progress and clean the chain if required. But in a howler, with boats anchored all around you, a chain locker fouled with mud is better than a collision or snagging another's tackle.

So, my recommendation is to bite the bullet and install the electric, and to include some sort of remote control for those nasty days. You will be glad that you did, especially as you age (I'm 82, and have some experience with that factor too!).

Good luck, and happy cruising... it's a good life!

Jim

PS IMO, an all-chain rode is close to a necessity for your application. Very few serious cruisers (ie ones that anchor frequently and in strange to them waters) advocate or use hybrid rodes.

[Mike OReilly]

I have a comparable boat to yours (heavy displacement, 37-foot). I've used a manual windlass for the last decade with no issues. But one big caveat: I rarely cruise alone.

Most of the time, anchoring/weighing-anchor is functionally done by one of us, but if conditions are tough (high winds/seas) then it's wonderful to have two; one on the helm, the other working the windlass.

So, although I'm a big fan of manual windlasses, I'd probably get a stout electric if I were planning to be a solo sailor on my boat. Actually, I'd probably get a smaller boat .

[DarwinHolmstrom]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

For a solo sailor, in calm or quite moderate conditions and in uncrowded anchorages, a manual windlass will suffice with no dramas. If you change either of those conditions, weighing anchor becomes problematic. If there is significant wind, the period between breaking out the anchor and catting it has you drifting out of control, or running back to the cockpit to drive the boat around with the chain and anchor dangling deep in the water, looking for something to snag... like another boat's chain. Obviously, the deeper and more crowded the anchorage the worse this problem is. Can be pretty scary!

Now, a manual windlass is quite capable of weighing the anchor, and if it is a good one, without unduly stressing your back. But, it is SLOW and it requires your presence on the foredeck full time whilst the anchor ascends. Even a simple electric device will bring the chain in more rapidly, reducing the exposure time, and it is possible to fit a remote that will allow you to drive the boat whilst weighing when necessary. For routine situations, it is better to be on the foredeck where you can monitor progress and clean the chain if required. But in a howler, with boats anchored all around you, a chain locker fouled with mud is better than a collision or snagging another's tackle.

So, my recommendation is to bite the bullet and install the electric, and to include some sort of remote control for those nasty days. You will be glad that you did, especially as you age (I'm 82, and have some experience with that factor too!).

Thank you! You did a much better job answering my question than I did asking it! The previous owner didn't think an electric windlass was necessary, and to be fair I have a very good manual windlass now, but both you and the captain of the boat that I took a couple of my ASA courses on make some excellent points about an electric windlass being much safer for sailing solo. I'm budgeting for projects that I want to complete this winter and next summer before I head out to the Atlantic and I've moved an electric windlass way up on the list.

[Cheechako]

It's something you should have. Also something that is very reliable. A boat your size can take a lot of energy to pull anchor etc. I once had to anchor 5 times before I got things sorted out in a difficult anchorage. I have anchored twice so many times ..... Not to mention getting things up when you need to vacate an anchorage due to wind shift etc.

[barnakiel]

Shannon 38 is a heavy boat. And I would have a winch.


Winch can be skipped up to a point but I think this point is about 9 meters, 4 tons and 50 years (the owner, not the boat).


barnakiel

[DarwinHolmstrom]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Shannon 38 is a heavy boat. And I would have a winch. Winch can be skipped up to a point but I think this point is about 9 meters, 4 tons and 50 years (the owner, not the boat). barnakiel

The owner is 57, but Sarah Belle is only 43, so I'm robbing the cradle!

[stormalong]

There are a lot of good responses here already but I have to throw in my $.02.

I recommend an electric windlass with a cordless remote control as well as corded control available if the cordless has a problem. I don't like foot switches because I hate drilling big holes in the deck when I don't have to. I have watertight connectors both at the helm and in the chain locker. They are used only if the cordless control fails - a rare event.

When going into a crowded anchorage, being on the helm to position exactly where you want the anchor is a tremendous advantage. I position the anchor past it's balance point on the anchor roller, not dangling, just to the point where powering down the anchor will fall. Then get the boat exactly over where you want the anchor and press the down button. Hold it down long enough for the anchor to reach bottom and then you can casually walk forward while letting out more chain. My chain is marked every 33 feet, each mark is unique so at a glance I know how much chain is out. When I am happy with the scope I add a snubber and secure the chain in a chain stopper to take the load off the windlass.

To raise anchor in calm conditions I can get the boat moving forward with the windlass. Just lift the catenary in short bursts and the boat will start moving - not a continuous pull - that's how windlasses get broken or motors get burned up. Once the boat is moving you can raise the chain in longer power bursts.. You can get the boat moving pretty good and never stress anything. For heavier conditions I motor towards the anchor while raising the chain. A cordless remote makes it easy to lean out the side of the cockpit for a better view.

A manual windlass is OK in light conditions but is terrible if you have to re-anchor or control the boat while raising anchor (rough weather, crowded anchorage). Sometimes you just won't be happy about where you settled in. Re-anchoring with an electric windlass is a piece of cake so you are more likely to re-anchor if not happy. Manually pulling in a lot of chain and the anchor gets old very fast. You will be more likely to re-anchor, as many times a necessary with an electric. I have sometimes re-anchored three or more times until I was happy.

Some other comments.

If your windlass is controlled by a contactor (big relay - needed for up-down control remotely anyway) a wireless remote is cheap and easy. Many electronics on-line sellers offer them as well as Amazon and Ebay. Mine cost about $30 and I overpaid. Get a spare fob for when the battery goes dead in the one you are using. Carry a couple of spare batteries. A battery lasts a long time so just wait until the control get intermittent and switch fobs. Then, at your leisure change batteries.

The battery forward was mentioned in an earlier response. The forward battery has been discussed here and on other discussion boards forever. Both camps are intractable. My opinion is to go with heavy wiring back to the house bank and skip the forward battery. With your engine running most of the power for the windlass can come from the alternator, reducing stress on the batteries. Heavy wire lets you do that. A battery forward will get limited assistance from the house bank and alternator due to voltage drop on lighter wiring. Does it matter under ideal conditions, probably not but when you need to re-anchor a couple of times that forward battery will get run down. Other reasons I don't like the battery forward are: You are putting a heavy weight in the bow where there is already a lot of weight from anchor(s) & chain and the bow is the place where a boat has the most motion so the forces up there are trying to break the battery loose.

One last comment. As someone else posted, all chain is the way to go. Most strength, most chafe resistance and least chance of jamming.

[Don C L]

Yeah I'll just join in with a vote for the electric windlass. I don't have one but my boat is considerably lighter. I have chartered boats in the past that had them. One, a Downeast 38, is pretty similar to the Shannon 38. I always motored up on the anchor but only to take the strain off the chain, I didn't want to put the strain on the windlass. If I were in your shoes I'd have switches at the helm and bow. IN higher winds it is a little trickier as I am sure you probably know. I had to get used to just how much goose on the engine was required for a given wind speed to just take the strain off the chain. It helps to have a clear deck to run back and forth on and nothing to stub toes on along the way NIce boat by the way! I've never seen it but I think it would be nice to have a camera mounted over the bow with a monitor at the helm so I could see the chain angle without having to run up there. Probably everyone else on here has one of those nowadays!

oh, and if I were to wake up and find myself facing a squall, and I have, I'd think in terms of increasing my scope and firing up the stove and making some coffee, unless I REALLY had to leave that anchorage. If a real emergency I'd be thinking of letting all the rode go (be sure it is easily released at the bitter end) and buoy it to retrieve later. And I have done that too. May sound extreme but it should be a quickly available option IMO.

[JPA Cate]

Good points, Don, It is the ability to sail your boat out of a 25 kn headwind, when your engine has lost all its oil, if needs be, that is something to really appreciate. We have jettisoned an anchor once, and retrieved it later. No shame in that.



Ann

[Paul L]

Some good comments above, especially Jim's.
One thing that having an electric windless does is change your attitude on re-anchoring. If you cruise long enough you'll choose enough anchoring spots that in reflection from the cockpit just aren't that good. Sometimes you just didn't see the coral bommie that is now 10 ft off the stern, or you ended up a little closer on the swing to another boat than you thought, or you just don't want to deal with the idiot who at 2 in the morning is yelling ar you that you have dragged upwind and are too close to him...... The decision to pick it up and re-anchor is made quicker and easier with an electric windlass . In other words the reluctance to re-anchor after a tiring day tends to get reduced.
Also deciding on more chain and heavier anchor is made a lot easier if you know your back isn't going to pay for it.