Island Packet 349

[geoff3nebel]

I’ve lost the reason why this thread started, but I like the lines and way my 1988 41’6”Westerly Oceanlord handles itself in all weathers and sea conditions… hope I’ve not annoyed you all by my two pence worth

[rotrax]

Originally Posted by denizati

This thread seems to have taken a turn towards Island Packet pros and cons which is ok, but can anyone comment on the merits of the newer designs (349/439) or should they just be lumped in with other IP's due to keel design? I was led to believe that the newer sail rig addresses some of the low wind performance concerns. I know there are only a handful of them out there now, but I would expect someone to know someone ??

AFAIK the hull/keel design remains, perhaps modified in detail. The new owners are from the sales end of the chain having been IP dealers. One imagines they know what will sell, and what customers want.


For Kiwin's information, a big compromise was made in early days by Bob Johnson.


All IP's were made with shallow draught and small rigs so as to transit the Intracoastal Waterway. They dont ground and fit under the bridges.



This he knew would restrict performance and give leeway but made the boat attractive to those who were not likely to sail on serious ocean passages but wanted a quality cruising boat.


Not that the boats are not capable, we all know they are. Bob Johnson said he sold 50% more boats by making them like this. Cute marketing strategy if you sell boats.



No doubt the Sailing Press will report on the new models performance soon.


I hope so!

[Happ]

Originally Posted by kiwin

You are missing the fact that it's a full keel boat shaped object with the hydrodynamics of a house brick. The hydrodynamics are from the century before last. It's dangerous. Are you going to be able to sail off a lee shore? What about in light airs? Dangerous.

Sorry to disagree with you. Obviously you want a boat that points under 30 degrees. I sailed a Hans Christian and they do go in light air. They just don’t accelerate quickly. On the other hand the mass of the boat allows momentum to glide the boat puff to puff.

[kiwin]

Hans Christians don't go in light air, or in any air, upwind.

[rotrax]

I have an excellent book in my extensive library at home by John Masters. It is called 'Bugles and a Tiger'


It covers his early life as a professional soldier in the Indian Army pre WW2.


During his early days with a Gurkha regiment he speaks with the adjudant about the feeling he has about being a little unpopular with his fellow officers.


" Well Masters, probably a good thing you fetched this subject up before it came up in your review. " replied the adjudant. " I would not be so dogmatic and postitive of your right in the matter when voicing opinion if I were you. You tend to come across as a bloody know all! "


I am not making any comparisons here, that is for others...................


I worked with a bloke who sounds like Kiwin once. A collegue called him " A got one, had one, been there, done it! "


Later, using a bottle of kitchen cleaner he made a slip in plate for his name tag which had to be worn in the warehouse area. Instead of ### ##### Tech Service. It read " ### ##### Mildly Abrasive.


It was weeks before he noticed - but everybody else did!

[rotrax]

A journalist for Sail magazine, Adam Cort has carried out a short test of the Island Packet 349.


His view can be found on the IP Homeport by clicking on the sidebar for 'visit the factory' and following the link.


Interesting report.


Some might be surprised.......................

[gonesail]

Originally Posted by DDabs

Not only that, but it should be noted that most Island Packet owners have actually had more than one Island Packet.

maybe they are motivated to dump the old models in fear of having to do the long term maintenance on them

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by DDabs

Island Packet is under relatively new ownership and their factory is actually extremely busy... they're churning out quite a few of the new 439...

It just goes to show that there are a lot of sailboat owners and prospective sailboat owners who'se priorities lie in fit and finish and whom have been sold on the concept of heavy is comfortable. I know quite a few IP owners, they seem to be happy with their boats but I don't know many who put up sails very often (and I will say that on the other hand virtually all of the IP's I’ve seen are kept in pristine condition, so the owners do care about their boats).

You get a feel for those priorities when you watch a person inspect a boat for the first time: If they hop on board and head below without the briefest look at the deck or rig, let alone even inquire about the underbody then you know what is important to them. And when one of them then looks around at the salon and galley and says, "I love it, it's perfect, let's buy it" they are getting what they want.

IP has a good niche market, it isn’t keen sailors, but it might be happy boaters.

But my gosh, that has to be the least efficient keel I’ve ever seen on a sailboat.

[wingssail]

I'd like to point out that the concept of "going to windward" is relative.

When comparing a racing machine to a full keel cruising yacht small differences are HUGE.

But in the overall scheme of things, IP's do go to windward, as the photo below, shows (these boats were sailing to a windward mark and they all, including the IP, made it).

[rotrax]

Originally Posted by wingssail

But my gosh, that has to be the least efficient keel I’ve ever seen on a sailboat.

See post# 62 for one reason the keel was designed as it was.


As Bob Johnson, the designer, had been a Rocket Designer and Engineer for McDonnell Douglas it is quite possible he had a good idea about keel shape.


All boats are a compromise. If you want to go fast and close to the wind, dont buy an Island Packet.


I got EXACTLY what I expected from my two.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by rotrax

See post# 62 for one reason the keel was designed as it was.

As Bob Johnson, the designer, had been a Rocket Designer and Engineer for McDonnell Douglas it is quite possible he had a good idea about keel shape.

All boats are a compromise. If you want to go fast and close to the wind, dont buy an Island Packet.

I got EXACTLY what I expected from my two.

I am happy for you and I am glad you got what you expected. There is room in sailing for all preferences. I learned along time ago that it is who a person is that is important, not the kind of boat he prefers. I am a racer and few IP owners are, but I still count IP owners among my best friends. For 90% of the boating stuff we talk about we share exactly the same views and experiences.
.
As for Bob Johnson's ideas, at one time he wrote an article (maybe more than one) on automatic piloting. I wish I could find it again. But it seems his ideal boat would navigate itself from any point to any other point. You just put in the route, get it out of the harbor, and let the boat do the rest including of course, steering, but also trimming the sails, tacking, reefing...everything. Hands off. So this being his ideal way of sailing I can understand why his boats don't excite the keen sailors among us. That is not the sport I love.

[rotrax]

Good post, bang on.


I would, however, consider Sailing as a Pastime, not a Sport.


I IS a Sport if you are racing, but a Pastime if cruising or daysailing for leisure.



I spent 45 years in Motorsport.


Now I am relaxing...............................

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by wingssail

So this being his ideal way of sailing I can understand why his boats don't excite the keen sailors among us. That is not the sport I love.

I have to somewhat disagree.

There are compromises in cruising boats. Most cruisers don't live on racing boats, and most cruiser boats fail the criterion you've posted. They've mostly all made some compromises for comfort and livability.

Most cruisers spend more time eating and sleeping than sailing. Also, if you boat in Florida and the Bahamas, a shallower keel makes a lot more places accessible. A shallow keel is a compromise on a sailing boat, for sure, but it's a bit obnoxious to pretend someone is less a sailor for making that choice.

I've sailed all my life, and now I'm looking for my next boat, and considering Island Packets. Not because I don't know sailing, but because I'm looking for a boat I will be living on, with my wife. So I'll be putting living comfort high on the list of criteria.

The boat I'd prefer to live on may not be the one I'd prefer when racing around the cones on a light wind day in summer. But it may be the one I want to have my friends over for drinks on, or cruise around Florida and the Bahamas in retirement.

[Happ]

Originally Posted by denizati

What's the take on this fairly new (2018 release) Island Packet? Price aside, seems to me one of the nicest mono's under 40' out there. Solent rig addresses some of the performance concerns. Ditch the hoyt boom and load it up with some quality sails and you got yourself got nice coastal cruiser. You can even get it in white now. What am I missing ??

It was Boat of the Year! They have 2 inherent flaws. When you need to change out the Chainplates it is a bit costly as they are imbedded into the hull. the solution is simply for IP to use Titanium. The second (may no longer be the case) they use Aluminum Holding Tanks. Aluminum does not like chlorine which is used in sewage treatment. Replacing the tank is quite expensive do to the amount of labor to get to it and rebuild the area after the new tank goes in. A poly Tank is about $800. The total coast can easily exceed $10k.

New boats truly ready to go cruising can be at $400k.

[Happ]

Originally Posted by kiwin

You are missing the fact that it's a full keel boat shaped object with the hydrodynamics of a house brick. The hydrodynamics are from the century before last. It's dangerous. Are you going to be able to sail off a lee shore? What about in light airs? Dangerous.

You really are in the wrong forum. There are forums for racing boats. You know the ones with deep keels bolted to a keel boss with a spade rudder. Yes they go to weather. Go sail on one for a month. I doubt you would last 2 weeks without a large crew. The pounding and healing is not very comfortable. Cruisers trade things like comfort through the water as well as below decks. Race boats more often than not heat up pre made food. Cruisers can cook rather extensive meals including freshly baked bread! As to sailing off a lee shore sure they don’t point 30d. So it depends on the angle to the shore. I’ve had to tack race boats off of a lee shore. Cruisers might have to do it sooner. So what. We are just sailing.

I spent a month with some friends who own a boat that was designed in the 1960’s solely to be sailed around the world. The boat went around the world over several years. It is a 41’ full keeled ketch drawing 5’! She is a delight to sail. Sure she’s not fast at all. I had a 14’ Trimaran that could easily go twice her hull speed. So what. We ate good food and stretched out in the cockpit and watched the world go by. That is cruising.