Jaguar 25 - good first boat?

[Juniorw]

I am looking to purchase my very first boat. Have my eye on Jaguar 25 but given my lack of sailing skills I would appreciate some help and advice from the more experienced sailors.

At the moment the boat is on hard sand and mast is down (ready for transport). It seems to be in a decent shape for the price and age. Some cosmetic works needed and I hope to do those through the winter so the boat is ready for next season.

My main concerns would be rigging and how to ensure that it is in decent shape and will not require works on it?

How to tell if the hull is without osmosis and will not need extensive works (not worried about aesthetic issues - these can be resolved)

Also, since it has inboard engine but the boat is on land, is there any way to know that the engine is in good condition or even works?

These are the most expensive issues that I can think off and would put me off from the boat. But I understand there might be something important I am overlooking due to lack of knowledge

A little more about the boat:

-Jaguar 25 made in 1978.
-fixed keel
-tiller steering
-diesel Yanmar inboard engine

[Joh.Ghurt]

Depends on the price. If the price is low enough, go for it. If it would hurt you losing the money, probably not such a good idea.

A 25' boat at this age is basically a beater car. Good enough to have fun with and learn a lot. Just make sure the rig and sails are complete. The engine is a big bag of surprises, most likely bad ones. But you can easily move a 25' with a 3 HP outboard if needed.

[Stu Jackson]

We had a 1981 Catalina 25 for 11 years great boat, simple, little to go wrong, super first boat (we had a C22 for a few years before that).


Caution: inboard engines in boats that small suffer from serious lack of access to the stuffing box. Please check it carefully.


YOu should also get to know these skippers: https://catalina-capri-25s.org/

[tkeithlu]

Welcome to the forum, Juniorw, and welcome to sailing.

You actually can start an engine on the hard. The only reason not to is it's overheating, and if you promptly shut it down after demonstating that a) it starts, b) it doesn't produce large amounts of smoke, and c) it turns the prop, no problem. I actually discovered that I had the wrong orientation propeller on my boat in a horse pasture in Middle Tennessee.

[Stu Jackson]

I disagree about turning an engine on when the boat is out of the water unless you know what you're doing. If the prop shaft turns you could burn out the cutlass bearing.


Also:

Winterizing an Engine on the Hard (Thanks to Maine Sail) - NEVER connect a hose to your water pump">raw water pump inlet - NEVER!!!

https://youtu.be/PKky09u1fGU

[Juniorw]

Thanks everyone for your advise!

I think I will refrain from switching the engine on in fears that I might end up messing something up as this would literally be the first time I ever switch a boats engine on. Probably not the best star

In regards to ensuring that the rig is complete - anything specific I should look out for?

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Juniorw

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In regards to ensuring that the rig is complete - anything specific I should look out for?

Chainplates. On every boat you ever look at. On the 25, IIRC, they get attached to the bulkhead, at least on the port side. If the deck penetration leaked, water could get into the bulkhead.


Go look at the site I posted the link to and peruse the topics, many new owners ask the same danged question, and the answers are always the same. Please spend some time there. A 25 foot boat is rather a small one for this forum, and that site is particular and specific for your boat.

[tkeithlu]

Stu, think about it for a minute. It may not be relevant to JuniorW, who is new to marine engines, but: An engine sitting on the hard with the coolant topped off is just the same as an engine on the water before the thermostat opens. It's in the phase of the coolant sitting still, heating up until the thermostat opens and the coolant starts circulating. On my car in sunny Florida that is about two minutes and 0.6 miles out of the garage. I don't know what it is on my boat, but it's plenty of time in which to start the engine, come to idle, shift forward shift reverse, and stop the engine. If you walked off to get a cup of coffee and forgot about it, or seriously suffer from ADD, you could have a problem, but in attentive yard work? I don't see a problem and have done no damage to my engine the few times I've needed that basic information.

[TrentePieds]

Juniorw:

25-footers are all baby boats :-)! They are excellent boats to learn on because they are so SIMPLE!

I'm with tkeith - you CAN start the engine while on the hard. However, you MUSTN'T run it for any length of time, since its cooling system will be out of operation, so beyond proving that she WILL start, doing so won't tell you much.

So let me put this before you to think about:

The fact that you don't know how to sail is immaterial at this point. Basic boat handling I could teach you, as I have many others, in an afternoon on the water. What you DO need to learn, far more than boat handling if you would really become a sailorman, is BOAT KEEPING :-)

One way to get a start on that is by doing two things:

a) Buy a GOOD book on boat keeping such as Don Casey's Good Old Boat read it, and get as many other such books as your pocket book will stand, or your local library will lend.

b) Buy an old boat in rough condition and put it right using all you have learned by reading the books.

So the Jaguar you are looking at will probably be as good as any. When she is seaworthy, she'll prove a fine little boat in which to learn a) boat handling b) skippering. The two are not the same! As I said: Boat handling you can learn in an afternoon. Skippering will take you, like it has all of us, a lifetime to learn. But the Jaguar will get you started.

Now, no man should EVER spend more money on a boat than he can walk away from with a smile still on his face, and only YOU can tell how much money you will be content to eliminate from other uses by chucking it into the "hole in the water" that the Jaguar, like any other boat, indisputably will be. All hobbies cost money :-)

As a novice you must come to terms with the fact that even in well-kept yachts, spending two or three hours on boat keeping for every hour of sailing the boat affords you is perfectly normal. An ill-kept boat may demand 10 or more hours of work for every hour of sailing.

Once you are into it, there is no problem you may encounter that we on this forum will not be able to help you with, so have at it :-)!

All the best

TrentePieds

[boatman61]

They are a nice little boat, sail well and the transom hung rudder is nice to have.
Considering they cost £10,000 brand new in the delux version they have stood the test of time where cared for.. 940 were built over 6yrs so they were popular.
Do a search on here for something called 'How to do your own Survey'.. hopefully someone will post you a link.

[Stewie12]

If you are concerned about the engine. Remove the injectors and put a little diesel in each cylinder. Then turn the engine over with a spanner. If it turns you will know it is not siezed.

[Juniorw]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

a) Buy a GOOD book on boat keeping such as Don Casey's Good Old Boat read it, and get as many other such books as your pocket book will stand, or your local library will lend.

b) Buy an old boat in rough condition and put it right using all you have learned by reading the books.

Thanks for a great answer! Already looking to get the book as it sounds exactly what I need


Also, purchased the Jaguar!! So now I can call myself a boat owner Hopefully a sailor in a near future as well haha

The boat is old and a bunch of work will have to be done before the season starts, good thing it is on hard at the moment surrounded by friendly experts in a boatyard.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by tkeithlu

Stu, think about it for a minute. It may not be relevant to JuniorW, who is new to marine engines, but: An engine sitting on the hard with the coolant topped off is just the same as an engine on the water before the thermostat opens. It's in the phase of the coolant sitting still, heating up until the thermostat opens and the coolant starts circulating. On my car in sunny Florida that is about two minutes and 0.6 miles out of the garage. I don't know what it is on my boat, but it's plenty of time in which to start the engine, come to idle, shift forward shift reverse, and stop the engine. If you walked off to get a cup of coffee and forgot about it, or seriously suffer from ADD, you could have a problem, but in attentive yard work? I don't see a problem and have done no damage to my engine the few times I've needed that basic information.

I have thought about it, and for more than a few minutes.

...shift forward shift reverse...

This ^^^ can ruin the cutlass bearing.


That's why I said what I did.


Another concern is an unknowledgeable skipper directly connecting a garden hose to the raw water intake if it is a freshwater cooled engine.


Otherwise, we agree.

[hlprmnky]

Congratulations, Juniorw on the boat, and welcome!
I also started off my boat ownership “career” this year with the purchase of a 1985 Catalina 25 (which is known in the UK as your Jaguar 25). I strongly second Stu’s recommendation to at least peruse the owner’s association website https://catalina-capri-25s.org/ - I am a member there as well and while I love reading and very occasionally commenting on posts here, that forum is hands down the best place to ask questions, and also to search years and years of archived knowledge, that are specifically about our boat.

[Haddock1]

My first boat and probably the boat I have the most affection for was a Jaguar 27 which I purchased in 2009. I was a complete novice and she taught me how to sail. Brilliant boat IMO.