Largest boat couple can handle

[SailingHarmonie]

Our current boat (53 feet) was designed and built with the stated objective that she should be able to be sailed by two people who can lift 35 lbs. There are many automated systems, each of which has a highly functional manual back up. We feel the design brief was achieved, and then some.

She is primarily laid out for two people to sail, not divided into a zillion cabins. She is probably pushing 150,000 sea miles, sailing with just two people living onboard full time, including two circumnavigations.

Now in our mid-60s she meets our needs for comfort and self-sufficiency which my old 40 foot cruiser did not, although it was very well designed as an ocean going vessel.

The down side of any large complex boat is that it takes a huge amount of care to keep it running smoothly. I am lucky, I can do virtually all that myself. When I see the quality of the work that some other boat owners pay for I am horrified, and I have no idea how a "checkbook" cruiser manages to keep a boat working in more remote areas.

[Paramotorgreg]

Most people on this thread seem to be suggesting that the OP shouldn’t get a larger boat - I’m going to disagree...

My wife and I have now owned our Northwind 50 for 9 years. We are reasonably fit but both in our late 60’s now. We cruised it on the south coast of the UK for a couple of years and since then we have been half way around the world - first the Mediterranean; then across the Atlantic; up and down the Leeward Islands; across the Pacific. We are currently in New Zealand. For most of the time we have been 2-handed but had 3 extra crew for the Atlantic crossing and our son joined us for the Pacific.

When we first bought it we were a bit intimidated by its size - it’s our first boat and bigger than most boats we had been sailing up until that date. However we are now completely used to it and the size of our boat has never been a problem to us. It has in-mast furling and electric winches for the genoa so sail handling is not an issue. When mooring we inform the marina the we are two-handed and require assistance with the lines and since have a bow thruster mooring is no more problem than it would be for any other two handed couple. The space is adequate but no more than that…when we have no guests we use the two spare cabins for storage but if anyone comes to stay there’s a problem.

My wife would like us to get a larger boat…she has been looking at boats in the 55-62ft range. Her rationale is that we need a larger cockpit for entertainment and the extra storage would be useful. I agree that the storage would be useful; the extra speed for passage making would be nice and the additional security in poor weather would be wonderful. I have no doubt that we could handle the larger size, but I am baulking at the additional cost - not just of the purchase but because I know that the running costs will increase exponentially.

Personally I would recommend that if you are planning to live on it you get the biggest boat you can afford. You will never ever complain that you have too much space. If you don’t have a great deal of experience then get some experience and practice on handling smaller boats before you get a big one. Theirs is a lot of difference in the handling characteristics and there’s also a lot of difference between hitting something when your boat weighs 10,000kg and when it weighs 20,000kg!

Some people in this thread are warning of the problems when things break on bigger boats. Well if you conduct regular preventative maintenance and sail sensibly then things shouldn’t break too often. We have never had a breakage that I haven’t been able to resolve.

People were also warning of the costs involved in larger boats and that I would heartily endorse. You will need to have fairly large pockets to keep on top of the costs of a 60ft boat.

[Fintry]

We did our circumnav on Sweetwater (57') without any thrusters. On most of the trip we had guests, but we did the Atlantic crossing with just the two of us. We cruised Fintry (79') a lot with just the two of us. My wife had a knee replacement in the middle of that period. Fintry has a bow thruster, but she's easy to handle even without it. Like everything else, it's a matter of practice -- nose into the dock at a 20 degree angle and drop a spring line on, then put the rudder hard over away from the dock and go gently forward. No leaping required. Fintry has three obsolete (top cleat) sailing winches to help get her exactly where you want her and Sweetwater's primaries will do the same.

A bigger boat is a more stable platform and doesn't get blown about as much, so in many respects is easier to handle than a smaller one. Also, as noted above, it's faster, so makes quicker passages and is better able to stay out of difficult weather.

Somewhere between Sweetwater and Fintry is a happy medium -- since you ask the question about cruising with just two of you, you don't want more bunks, so you need to ask why you want to go much larger than around 60'.

Of course you will want a spare autopilot, but that's true on any boat that's going to make long passages. As noted above, a sheet winch will pull up the anchor if necessary, but several windlasses come with a slot for a winch handle. Halyards are always available to help move heavy loads.

We never had trouble finding a dock for either -- Sweetwater is a keel/centerboard, so draws seven feet. Fintry about the same unless fully loaded with fuel. Drafts over seven feet get difficult in some areas. And, as noted above, Sweetwater's 82' mast limits where you can go, but for the ICW, mast height is a limit for some boats less than 50' long.


Jim


Sweetwater - Swan 57 sloop - circumnavigated 1995-98
Fintry - 79' x Royal Navy Fleet Tender 2003-22 20k miles including x-Atlantic The Fleet Tender Fintry
Morning Light -- Webbers Cove 42 trawler 2021- 23
Going back to sailing now that Morning Light is sold.

[Fore and Aft]

I came across this ad today, says you need two crew I take it that does not include the skipper? No mention of electric winches and I can already feel my back twitching and lungs bursting from the effort of getting those sails sorted.
Not to mention my wrists failing after rolling two coats of antifoul on her.
Cheers
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/ball...ion/1322206095

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

says you need two crew

Ah yes, a real Topsail Schooner.
If you read the ad closely it says;
"minimum of 2 fit crew with wit and knowledge and without fear of height."
Of course, she carries yardarms and square sails.
That's why the sentence about the crew.
A couple of "without fear of height" crew to scurry up the ratlines and work the square sails, (one hand for the ship, one hand for you).
Without the Topsails set she'd be an easy boat to handle, and all the other sails can be worked from the deck.
If the saloon is representative of the rest of the boat she's a fine ship.
A South Seas Schooner, nothing finer, and enough clear deck space for all the toys and still have dancing room for the girls.
PS, and masts that won't fall down I reckon.

[Jim Cate]

^^^^
Strange that the ad fails to mention the ferro cement hull until the very last line.

Also have to wonder about the "average speed 10 knots".

Just the thing for the average dreamer!

Jim

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

^^^^
Strange that the ad fails to mention the ferro cement hull until the very last line.

Yeah, I noticed that to, almost like they were apologizing for it.
But if the hull was indeed done by expert workers using good materials and proper techniques I've little doubt it'll outlast the owners' grandkids.

[Fore and Aft]

Jim the 10 knots was the speed the yard trolley did when she was launched. Its also the speed the owner will be walking across the marina carpark to the bank if he finds a schmuck that pays anywhere near that price.
Cheers

[Jim Cate]

^^^^^

Excellent analysis! I think you've got it...

Jim

[Jim Cate]

But if the hull was indeed done by expert workers using good materials and proper techniques

Quoting Dirty Harry (roughly) "Is this your lucky day?" It is apparently pretty difficult to make such judgements at long removes from the actual plastering effort. There have been some good ferro hulls built. There have been a lot more that failed the test.

But shucks, it's only a quarter million bucks...

Jim

[Loredo]

How do they say? The mother of the stupid is always pregnant. Sooner or later a stupid enough one will show up and fall in love with that... what is it?A boat? A yacht? A super-yacht?...Wait, maybe a basement.

[HankOnthewater]

Just in keeping with this thread, this Sampson boat is not suitable to be sailed by a couple, not for $250k , not for $25k.

[Amouage]

Over the years I thought a lot about it, or actually about what is the optimal size of a sailing yacht (for a couple).

On the ocean your yacht can never be big enough to handle the sea state (you're small under any circumstances). Sailing it is simple, handling it is another matter in particular when things go wrong and they will eventually (far away from the living world and even close at home).

The biggest risk in my opinion is a torn sail (whether gennaker, head sail or main sail) and you manually need to pull it in. That is something you need to be able to handle short handed. And on a >45ft sailing boat you have quickly 60 -70 m2 of main and 120 - 130 m2 of gennaker. The gennaker you can cut loose and can go overboard, however a with jib and main this becomes much harder.

I never understood the idea of a shallow draft. Now I know that you can't enter the Bahama's with 2.5 or 3 m+ but the idea that you have better anchorages in secluded bays never convinced me. I mean you will not steer your yacht over a reef with an accuracy of 0,5 meters under the keel. Charts are never that accurate and the depth depends on many different factors suchs as tide, wind speed and direction, sea state etc. So I rather optimize for sailing performance rather then go shallow draft.

That brings me to my personal views - and they are not absolutes - that I believe the optimal size yacht for long voyages whether coastal, crossing the Med or transatlantic of Pacific is a 50 - 55 ft yacht for a couple (with some friends or small crew). It has the proper balance between sailing performance, live aboard space, comfort and handling. The bigger you go the more berths you get, whereby the useable living space remains suchs as mastercabin, shower, galley, main saloon and nav station remains the same.

But these are just my 2 cents.....

[Kettlewell]

I never understood the idea of a shallow draft. Now I know that you can't enter the Bahama's with 2.5 or 3 m+ but the idea that you have better anchorages in secluded bays never convinced me. I mean you will not steer your yacht over a reef with an accuracy of 0,5 meters under the keel. Charts are never that accurate and the depth depends on many different factors suchs as tide, wind speed and direction, sea state etc. So I rather optimize for sailing performance rather then go shallow draft.

It depends on where you cruise. Shallow draft opens up thousands of additional anchorages on the East Coast of North America down to the Caribbean. I have cruised extensively with as little as 1.5 feet of draft, and the difference in anxiety in coastal waters is significant. I can vividly remember riding out major gales in total comfort anchored well up some creek in the Chesapeake or the Intracoastal, with no other boats around and no worries like the big boats lumping around out in deeper more exposed parts of a harbor. I anchored in many places in the Bahamas where almost nobody ever goes, all by ourselves. Even when following the main cruising route it makes life easier if you know you have an additional foot or two of clearance in that tricky reef entrance. In popular harbors there are often out-of-the-crowd spots around the edges in the shallows.

[Amouage]

It is interesting to hear your experience, as I have not really shallow water experience (except for sandbanks, where grounding is not really an issue). However I will on my circumnavigation. I would not be comfortable to have only 1.5 ft clearance under the keel anyway, since reefs and rocks can be unpredictable and the last thing you want is to ground your yacht there before the storm set in..... But certainly I get your point of view and thanks for sharing.