Let's keep politics off the forum

[Hardhead]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

See, this would kinda annoy me. But I would never, ever, consider trying to force you to remove them. Freedom of speech includes the ability to offend others. And I don’t have any right to not be offended.

I also have the right to speak my mind, and to say how silly your flags are .

Only in a functioning democracy. Too much power in one place might change that over time.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

See, this would kinda annoy me. But I would never, ever, consider trying to force you to remove them. Freedom of speech includes the ability to offend others. And I don’t have any right to not be offended.

I also have the right to speak my mind, and to say how silly your flags are .

Not in Australia mate. We have the notorious Section 18c for people who might use offensive language in relation to race, sexuality, color of socks, etc.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Not in Australia mate. We have the notorious Section 18c for people who might use offensive language in relation to race, sexuality, color of socks, etc.

This is where I give proper credit to the American constitution. It is the only one which enshrines freedom of speech in nearly absolute terms. All other democracies, including my own here in Canada, tempers freedom of speech in far greater ways. I appreciate the reasoning, and sometimes agree with these limitations, but they are less absolute in their expression of this critical freedom.

Of course, given all this it is ironic that the USA has also allowed private rights and freedoms to supersede many of its constitutional public rights and freedoms. For example, the ascension of the corporation as a person is turning many of these cherished rights into a farce.

[Cpt Pat]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

This is where I give proper credit to the American constitution. It is the only one which enshrines freedom of speech in nearly absolute terms. All other democracies, including my own here in Canada, tempers freedom of speech in far greater ways. I appreciate the reasoning, and sometimes agree with these limitations, but they are less absolute in their expression of this critical freedom.

Of course, given all this it is ironic that the USA has also allowed private rights and freedoms to supersede many of its constitutional public rights and freedoms. For example, the ascension of the corporation as a person is turning many of these cherished rights into a farce.

Mark,

With full respect to our constitution, do a text search for the word "privacy." You won't find it. Without an explicit right of privacy, you have no personal integrity, and in today's world - without that integrity - you have no freedoms.

I lived in Sweden 20 years ago. I remember when I got my first phone bill. It was a 3 X 5 card that just said: "you owe us this much money." Well, being American, I called the phone company (Televerket) and asked for the itemized bill. A few days later, I got a picture of what looked something like an electricity usage meter, with little hands pointing at numbers. I called and asked: "What is this?" and was told that was my usage meter. I then challenged: "but where is the list of calls I made?" The lady kindly chuckled and said: "How much do you know about European history? Do you know what happened when the Nazis invaded Denmark? They went straight to the phone office with a list of enemies, looked at their phone bills, and then rounded up everyone who had talked to the Nazis' enemies on the phone. In Sweden, we don't keep that information. If you call Norway, the meter runs at two marks per minute. Call America, and it's ten marks per minute. But we don't keep a record of which numbers you called. In Sweden, we have a constitutional right to privacy."

Contrast that to NSA's bulk collection of ALL of the phone records of every American. (As allowed by Patriot Act section 215.) How does our Bill of Rights look now? Those are nominal, idealized rights. And when it comes to privacy, that right doesn't exist at all. Never has.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Cpt Pat

With full respect to our constitution, do a text search for the word "privacy." You won't find it. Without an explicit right of privacy, you have no personal integrity, and in today's world - without that integrity - you have no freedoms.

I’ve often argued the same (as have far smarter thinkers). I would love to see a right of privacy enshrined in all our constitutions.

I’m often the one defending the need for privacy. My view is that we are intentionally being trained to abandon any sense of it. And it’s not just the Facebooks and Googles that are doing it. Our governments are at the forefront as well.

Democracy and freedom from state and corporate control cannot exist without privacy. Yet so many of us willingly participate in its demise. It’s not good.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Cpt Pat

With full respect to our constitution, do a text search for the word "privacy." You won't find it. Without an explicit right of privacy, you have no personal integrity, and in today's world - without that integrity - you have no freedoms.

Great anecdote about Norway! I didn't know about that. Seems the Europeans have a few things to teach us about freedom.


In fairness, privacy was a given in the 1770s and I don't think the architects of the US Constitution could have anticipated both the technological capabilities, and the formative events that have led to our surveillance state.


The Europeans can also provide some guidance here - the General Data Protection Regulation.

[Cpt Pat]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Great anecdote about Norway! I didn't know about that. Seems the Europeans have a few things to teach us about freedom.


In fairness, privacy was a given in the 1770s and I don't think the architects of the US Constitution could have anticipated both the technological capabilities, and the formative events that have led to our surveillance state.


The Europeans can also provide some guidance here - the General Data Protection Regulation.

Yes! Europe's GDPR assigns ownership of the individual's personal information -- to that individual. Unlike here in the US, where the business that collects your personal information owns that data - and can do whatever they want with it. They will use those long "privacy policies" you see, full of legalese, to evade accountability when something bad happens to you.

By the way, unless you have a blocker installed on your browser, cruisersforum.com sends data to Facebook and Google every time you load a web page here.

I'm using Ghostery on Chrome. Here's the list of trackers it blocks on cruisersforum.com: